MAY 15

Ho-hum...yawn...

delays, price going up

yada yada yada

Can anyone comment on the differences between the technology of the all electric EV1, which GM created in the 90s, and the Chevy Volt? I will be hearing Bob Lutz speak on Monday so any information would be great!

First just go to www.gm-volt.com for all the info you need.

Briefly: EV1 had about 120 mile range on battery only using NiMH batteries, after that you were stuck. Volt has effectively unlimited range because of a 3 cylinder flex fuel gas engine that kicks in after the first 40 or 50 miles (before Lithium Ion battery gets too low).
This avoids "range anxiety" yet on average results in 80 or 90% of miles driven being on electric only since most of US population drives less than 40 miles per day.

I can not say that I am suprised that GM is changing its pricing. I am sure it is directly proportional to the cost of oil. Also, it is still a GM product. I won't buy it because I do not believe in unions. I believe that one point in time they were needed, but now, in our letigious society not so much. I do not think that someone should be paid 25-45/hr to spin a bolt or install seats, etc..

Reminds me of 1996/97 when VW told everyone that the new beetle was coming out soon and it would be priced like the old beetle - initally they said 10-12K, got to the lot, they are all 20K . That is not a peoples car.

Just more vaporware.

$35-40,000 isn't that bad I guess. It's the exact opposite of a hummer and practically half the cost!

I do hope they decide to ditch those ridiculous black fenders though... ick.

How do you figure its vapourware, if all signs thus far are pointing to its successful launch? Even at 40K, it is almost undoubtedly going to be the most efficient vehicle you can buy, which has to be worth something.

As far as unions go, that's a whole other argument, but at a fundamental level, I'm of the opinion that every wage should be a living wage. Obviously the way the system currently exists, you can't just jack up the minimum wage so that this is the case without causing massive inflation and other problems...but that's a flaw in North America's socioeconomic structure. Unions may occasionally overstep their bounds, but at least they ensure a middle-class standard of living in an increasingly economically stratified world (i.e the rich get richer while the poor get poorer).

I agree. Now that the world is abuzz over this vehicle, you know darn well they will price this car north of $35 or $40K.

GM will milk all the pub they can out of the Volt. They have to! Look at the red ink Detroit has been swimming in the last several years. If the Volt makes it to the showroom and lives up to the hype, they'll make a fortune. Ford and Chrysler better get moving! Toyota and Honda have gotten off to a great start.

I want to think GM would copy the Volt hybrid technology and offer it to other makes and models in different price ranges. Right now,I don't know if I can justify 40K for an EV.

Hopefully efficiency will rise and pricing drop as EV development progresses and competition builds. We'll just have to wait and see.

We all know they could do it, what with having made a 150 mile range EV 20 years ago...the question remains the same though, WILL they do it?

The EV-1 was a two-seater and didn't have to lug around the weight of a gas tank and an internal combustion engine. It could go over 100 miles on a charge and never needed gasoline, oil changes, a muffler, or a catalytic converter.

I don't think the issue is range anxiety, it's post sales service revenue anxiety.

The barrier to producing an affordable four-passenger EV with a 100 mile range isn't technology, it's denial that the world has changed and car companies will have to adapt or die.

Anyone that knows anything about economics should be against Unions. They are effectively a monopoly on labor, and create enormous inefficiencies in business. Some workers may benefit, but the rest of us experience higher unemployment and a higher price for consumer goods. The end result is an advantage to foreign competitors.

As for the Chevy Volt, I'm excited about it. I won't buy one due to the high cost, but I think that it is a big step in the right direction in turning around out gasoline-centered economy.

written by james , May 15, 2008
Ho-hum...yawn...
delays, price going up

“Three months ago if you asked Frank Weber ’so November 2010?’ he’d get flustered and say he wouldn’t answer until he knew more, now if you ask him the same question, he’s calm and relaxed and says unless we encounter some completely unforeseen obstacle - November 2010 looks good.”

What delays?

written by Tom Saxton , May 15, 2008
The EV-1 was a two-seater and didn't have to lug around the weight of a gas tank and an internal combustion engine. It could go over 100 miles on a charge and never needed gasoline, oil changes, a muffler, or a catalytic converter.

No, instead it had to haul arround several hundred pounds of NiMH batteries and required overnight to recharge.

The barrier to producing an affordable four-passenger EV with a 100 mile range isn't technology, it's denial that the world has changed and car companies will have to adapt or die.

If you're traveling over 100 miles, chances are you are having an overnight stay and WON'T be able to recharge wherever you are. Additionaly, you will have to recharge while out. Good luck doing that anytime soon with a pure EV. That's the reason for the gasoline generator.

written by Ken Roberts , May 15, 2008
As for the Chevy Volt, I'm excited about it. I won't buy one due to the high cost, but I think that it is a big step in the right direction in turning around out gasoline-centered economy.

I'm not planning on buying one at first, either. Partly due to price and partly because I have a car that is currently only four years old and my family has a habit of keeping them for 10 . Sometime around 2012 to 2016 I'll be looking at buying one. Hopefully the price will have come down some by then.

Wow 40 miles on a full charge by 2010? By then the prius will be delivering 80 miles at 70% of the cost of the Volt. Saw some other interesting buzz over at http://www.chevy-volt.net

All you anti-union guys want to go back to the days of 6 day 10-12 hour weeks, getting fired because you couldn't run fast enough when the boss called, and raising your families in workers tenements. Sitting in the charity ward with a sick kid because you couldn't afford insurance.

Oh, for the good old days....

--

I've been unhappy with Detroit offered for many years. I wanted a smaller, efficient, and very reliable vehicle, so I bought Toyotas. But if GM can deliver the Volt as advertised I'll take a close look.

And besides all that, look at this as car when/if it appears, as a milestone in the transition away from petroleum to a new form of personal transportation.

This will give drivers a real idea of how their needs could be built by a electric-only car. Or tell us that we need to hang on to liquid fuels for a while longer.

Bob, I've never been a part of a union, and I've always made far above minimum wage and worked reasonable hours. Unions are only useful when confronting local monopolies that actually can abuse their employees. Non-monopolies cannot abuse employees, because they are in competition with other businesses for workers.

Thus unions are only appropriate in monopoly like situations. In all other cases, they have had a net negative effect. Examples are rampant.

GM doesn't care about electric cars. The technology is there to get 150 miles per charge. The technology is there to allow the cars to be sold $30000 or less.

But GM DOES NOT CARE.

It doesn't want to sell an electric car so it develops a half-assed one some guy probably thought up drunk in a bar somewhere so that they could say they're doing something.

If they actually developed a car that was half-decent, people would completely buy it.

I'm still holding out hope the ZAP-X will come to fruition :)

I agree with Jake and others. GM could easily do this, and did before (then ground up there creation into fine piles). I think they see that producing a simple, reliable, long lasting car will KILL their service and parts profits- so what is in it for them? They also are heavily invested in machinery to make the ICE, probably have deep roots into the oil business...

So, I like the Think car. Love the innovation of ordering the car the way I want it on line, and not having to deal with some creepy sales guys on the lot and deal with their shell-game negotiations. Think seems to be looking at the whole picture with new eyes. And they aren't playing games.

I am extremely pleased to note that my predictions have come true. I told some friends that those environmental morons who were gullible enough to swallow the absurd nonsense in the film "Who Killed .." would not admit they were wrong, even when the Volt rolls into a showroom.
This pathetic article is proof positive that I was right. Now the skeptics are reduced to claiming the price is higher than originally estimated. So what? Pretend that Lutz knew then how much more expensive that 100K plus battery pack really is. I note that no other EV builders are quoting warranties and also that the Tesla, which has broken evey promise that it has made, is still unbelievably seen in a positive light by
the anti-GM baboons. The Tesla will require a new $25,000 battery pack every five years. And the Tesla is a totaly impractical vehicle with a ridiculous guaranteed driving radius of less than 100 miles. The Volt will change the world. The Tesla and all of those other amateur hour electrics will be impossible to unload.

Ken -

If you're still reading this - please read some history about what the world was like for the "working man" before unions.

You've been able to make a decent living without being in a union (as have I) because:

1) Unions created labor protection laws that protect our collective butts and give us stuff like the right to lunch breaks and decent working conditions. Companies don't do that stuff just to be nice.

2) Unions created pay scales that non-union companies had to meet or not get good employees (at least in some markets).

Unions have wandered off the track (too often lately) but let me assure you that unless you possess some somewhat rare and needed specialized skill you would not have the extra money to own a computer right now. Neither would you have the free time to use it.

Read some history, please.

Read about how workers who have no rights in China are working 60-70 hour weeks, living in dormitories, getting a few days off a year to visit their spouses and children.

Heck, look at how our "illegal" farmworkers get treated. Worked like animals and housed like the same.

It just seems that the more anti-American you are, the more you beleive in conspiracies and evil people. And the more willing you are to subscribe to the idea that they must be shouted down, silenced and liquidated.

Why is that?

just looked into the Volt today.. im not impressed at all.. i believe that someone, some gate keeper in the power structure is going to make sure that this product fails.. im quite confident that they could have the volt perform far far better, but i believe it is being brought out just to disappoint us making us believe that even in the year 2010, oil is the only way to go.. "electric cars are just still too ahead of their time"..B.S. "the technology is just not there yet"...