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There's been a lot of press lately about EV launches and pricing strategies of big auto companies, like Nissan with their LEAF. But out of the shadows, practically-unknown Envision Motor Company has emerged and announced that they will be launching not one, but three EVs this summer, all with a price tag under $30,000, once the $7,500 federal tax credit is applied.
The all-electric vehicles will include a seven-passenger wagon, a utility van and a small pickup truck. All models will be sold at a selection of dealerships across America.
The vehicles will be outfitted with 24kWh sodium nickel chloride batteries and AC motors. The company states they'll have a max speed of 75 mph and a 200-mile range. They have onboard chargers and can juice up at home on a 110V circuit in six to eight hours. The vehicles have already passed crash testing.
The EVs will make their debut on a test-drive tour around the country that starts in May.
via Autoblog Green
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written by Carl Hage, April 15, 2010
I don't see how a car could get a 200 mile range on a 24kWh battery unless driving down a gently sloped mountain. The Tesla has a 50kWh battery and small lightweight body, and is rated about 200mi range.
Usually there is 3-5 miles/kWh on an EV, this one claims 8.
Usually there is 3-5 miles/kWh on an EV, this one claims 8.
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written by Andy Simpson, April 15, 2010
The Tesla uses Li-ion technology, the Envision is using (I think) ZEBRA sodium nickel chloride batteries, two pretty different battery technologies.
Tesla have to be pretty conservative about charge/discharge of their batteries - you wouldn't want them to last as long as my laptop battery (regularly overcharged => massively shortened lifetime). I think that the ZEBRA cells are probably more robust in this aspect.
Tesla have to be pretty conservative about charge/discharge of their batteries - you wouldn't want them to last as long as my laptop battery (regularly overcharged => massively shortened lifetime). I think that the ZEBRA cells are probably more robust in this aspect.
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written by EV, April 16, 2010
Battery Technology doesn't matter in this case. kwh is still kwh and Li-Ion are near 99% efficient. Carl is right, there is something unusual going on with the miles per kwh here.
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written by Doc, April 16, 2010
That $25,000 price premium buys a LOT of petrol... even at $3 a gallon. That equates to nearly 8,300 gallons of gas, or about a quarter-million miles of driving at 30mpg. I doubt if these vehicles are built rugged enough to last that long and EVER reach a break-even cost point. And this simple calculation doesn't even include the cost of electricity or new battery packs after every 120,000miles+ (which puts the break-even point even FURTHER away)
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written by Andy Simpson, April 16, 2010
Battery technology is relevant - you've got to bear in mind the recommended depth of discharge for each technology to know how many kWh you are going to be able to suck out of the battery.
The ZEBRA supports (at least 1000 cycles) at 100% DOD.
Tesla don't charge to 100% (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=39) and stops discharge before 0%, so their 50kWh battery isn't giving up 50kWh of energy.
The ZEBRA supports (at least 1000 cycles) at 100% DOD.
Tesla don't charge to 100% (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=39) and stops discharge before 0%, so their 50kWh battery isn't giving up 50kWh of energy.
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written by JoshCT, April 16, 2010
I know, Mr. Obvious here, but I still don't like the idea of EVs while our electric grid relies so heavily on coal, natural gas, or in some cases - oil.
These cars look ugly too. Anyway, I'll wait for HFC.
These cars look ugly too. Anyway, I'll wait for HFC.
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written by Nicolas from simplegreenaction.ca, April 16, 2010
Great, for now the debate about how far you can get with a battery isn't really a big concern for me. If you use your car for the city, you will have engouh millage to go wherever you want to go. I think it's just about time manufacturers start producing real electric cars.
Nicolas
simplegreenaction.ca team
Nicolas
simplegreenaction.ca team
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written by Jeff, April 16, 2010
@JoshCT
How do you think you are you gonna get your H2? A: From fossil fuels. And until CO2 sequestration becomes a reality, you're still going to have GHG emissions and pollutants. On top of that, you're gonna have to spend tens or hundreds of billions of dollars on hydrogen infrastructure, all to fascilitate operation of a more costly and less reliable vehicle.
Unless and until fuel cells make a hundred-fold leap in terms of cost and reliability, hydrogen just doesn't make sense -- for the consumer or for the environment.
And I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but EVEN if you charge an EV with 100% coal-generated electricity, it's still much better in terms of CO2, NOx, SOx, particulates, etc. than a conventional car. Charging at night and taking into account the actual power-generation mix makes it all the better.
How do you think you are you gonna get your H2? A: From fossil fuels. And until CO2 sequestration becomes a reality, you're still going to have GHG emissions and pollutants. On top of that, you're gonna have to spend tens or hundreds of billions of dollars on hydrogen infrastructure, all to fascilitate operation of a more costly and less reliable vehicle.
Unless and until fuel cells make a hundred-fold leap in terms of cost and reliability, hydrogen just doesn't make sense -- for the consumer or for the environment.
And I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but EVEN if you charge an EV with 100% coal-generated electricity, it's still much better in terms of CO2, NOx, SOx, particulates, etc. than a conventional car. Charging at night and taking into account the actual power-generation mix makes it all the better.
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written by Jeff, April 16, 2010
@Andy
The link you provided to Tesla's website says that they keep the state of charge above 2% and below 95% SOC. Some quick math, and we get 93% of usable Li-Ion battery capacity in the Tesla. That small difference hardly makes these efficiency figures believable.
24kWh/200 miles = 120 wh/mi. The roadster uses 135 wh/mi.
There's just no way a wagon, van, or pickup truck gets 11% better efficiency than a super small, light-weight Roadster.
The link you provided to Tesla's website says that they keep the state of charge above 2% and below 95% SOC. Some quick math, and we get 93% of usable Li-Ion battery capacity in the Tesla. That small difference hardly makes these efficiency figures believable.
24kWh/200 miles = 120 wh/mi. The roadster uses 135 wh/mi.
There's just no way a wagon, van, or pickup truck gets 11% better efficiency than a super small, light-weight Roadster.
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http://www.dacia.fr/gamme-dacia/logan-mcv/loganmcv-8900.jsp
The regular gasoline versions are sold as low-cost vehicles starting at about €9,000 for the wagon (that's about $12,000), but they are fine and sturdy cars nevertheless and sell very well in France. This means that EMC would either adapt them to use an electric powertrain or factory-build it. This puts the conversion price to $25,000 for a selling price of $37,000. I hope they'll sell them on the European market as well (€27,000 is quite affordable for an EV).