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It looks like someone is finally threatening Toyota's hybrid mileage supremacy. Well, that is, unless you count the Honda Insight...which no one seems to.
VW has gone ahead and approved its Jetta diesel hybrid concept, hoping to turn the car into a legitimate Prius competitor. The car will likely be roomier and zippier than the Prius, both advantages coming from its use of diesel instead of gasoline.
Diesel, which contains more energy per gallon and also produces less CO2, can improve mileage significantly on its own. Adding a hybrid component to the car really moves up mileage numbers. Unfortunately, diesels require advanced and expensive engines to keep pollutant emissions low. VW already charges $2,000 extra for its diesel models. Add onto that the cost of regenerative braking and a hybrid drive train and suddenly this car is looking out of range.
While the Prius manages to come in at a reasonable $25,000, it's likely that the Golf TDI is going to break $30k while being the sort of car people are used to paying a lot less for. Of course, there are no real numbers on price yet, but AutoBlogGreen has speculated that this high price is going to keep the cars confined to Europe, where emissions standards are higher and people are used to paying for diesels, at least for the first few years of the TDI hybrid's life.
Via AutoBlogGreen
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written by Dave, March 13, 2008
Diesel produces more CO2 than gas? Not true comparing the Golf diesel hybrid with the Prius: 89g/km for the Golf, vs 115g/km for the Prius.
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written by odograph, March 13, 2008
I paid $22.4K for my 2005 Prius, I thought they'd held the line on that. Actually I know they have, I know someone who went shopping last week and got mid $22K quotes for the A model, and one offer of a B for the same price.
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written by Andrew, March 13, 2008
In my opinion the VW will be a great step. VAG already dominates the diesel vehicle engines worldwide and now they'll take safe steps to introduce a true practical solution. Although $5K more than a Prius, let the market decide what people will pay a premium for. Here's a proven winner (Golf) with an incredibly strong consumer base. Yes, bottom line counts but it is true that people will pay a premium for a product they beleive in. Let's allow people to drive fantastic cars that are incredibly efficient yet don't necessarily look like you're waving your "I'm green and love birk's" flag
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written by Dave, March 13, 2008
I am looking forward to the new VW clean-diesel lineup. I drive a 2002 Jetta TDI and get a true 55 mpg on the road, 50 mpg overall. Plus I can run on biodiesel with no modifications. And lots more power/torque than the Prius. Friends with a Prius average only 40 mpg. Prius is an ugly car to boot.
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written by Schmeltz, March 13, 2008
Most have probably whipped out their calculators already but I figure I'll indulge those who haven't...
VW diesel-hybrid:
(15000 miles/year)/(69 mpg)= 220 gal of diesel/year
(220 gal.year)x(3.25/gal.) = $715.00 /year
Toyota Prius:
(15000 miles/year)/(45 mpg)= 340 gal of gas/year
(340 gal.year)x(3.25/gal.) = $1105.00 /year
The above assumes gas and diesel to be roughly the same price. There will clearly be a savings improvement over the already good numbers of the Prius, therefore softening the added hit to the checkbook you will take when you sign on the dotted line. VW will also have bragging rights as the new green kid on the block with the highest fuel economy. I would encourage VW to bring this vehicle to the U.S. and just give it a try...What would it hurt? What's the worst that could happen? Yes, it could fail, (remember the Phaeton?), but I doubt it. I think this car best fits people who are willing to keep their "investment" for the long term--essentially until the wheels fall off. For the 3 year and 5 year traders out there, a car like this probably isn't so much for you.
Just some thoughts.
VW diesel-hybrid:
(15000 miles/year)/(69 mpg)= 220 gal of diesel/year
(220 gal.year)x(3.25/gal.) = $715.00 /year
Toyota Prius:
(15000 miles/year)/(45 mpg)= 340 gal of gas/year
(340 gal.year)x(3.25/gal.) = $1105.00 /year
The above assumes gas and diesel to be roughly the same price. There will clearly be a savings improvement over the already good numbers of the Prius, therefore softening the added hit to the checkbook you will take when you sign on the dotted line. VW will also have bragging rights as the new green kid on the block with the highest fuel economy. I would encourage VW to bring this vehicle to the U.S. and just give it a try...What would it hurt? What's the worst that could happen? Yes, it could fail, (remember the Phaeton?), but I doubt it. I think this car best fits people who are willing to keep their "investment" for the long term--essentially until the wheels fall off. For the 3 year and 5 year traders out there, a car like this probably isn't so much for you.
Just some thoughts.
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written by GreenKristine, March 13, 2008
I read that VW was coming out with a 3 cylinder "POLO" ( I think that was its name) which was like a Golf but just more efficient. No hybrid, strictly gas but becuase of the lesser engine and lightness, it gets slightly better mileage than the Prius with less CO2 emissions.
I guess you are not looking for a rocket if you like this one but the point is, hybrid may not be the only answer here.
I guess you are not looking for a rocket if you like this one but the point is, hybrid may not be the only answer here.
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written by PM, March 13, 2008
It's great that there are more choices on the market for electric and alternative vehicles. The technology has definitely caught up with gas as a viable option. I have my eye on the new Zap EV that does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. How can you go wrong?
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written by PM, March 13, 2008
Does anybody know of a resource that compares the prices, and ownership costs of all the major EV's and hybrids on the market? I'd like to see the info together, to see where things are pricewise. Of course the new Zap will cost more than the new Prius, but all other things being equal it'd be great to see.
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written by iDevin, March 13, 2008
Sure this might just threaten some Prius sales, although I doubt they'll ever be able to match the $21,100 MSRP starting price, but let's assume it comes out in 2010. That's the year the Volt comes out. The Volt can get infinite MPG under a 40 mile commute and 150MPG for 60 miles. The Volt should come in between $30,000 and $35,000 and I bet it will have more tax incentives because you can plug it in and it's American. I really don't think VW can sell a diesel hybrid car in the US for less than $30k between the exchange rate and the generally higher price of their cars versus Chevy or Toyota. Also, the price of gasoline was $3.57 and diesel was $4.05 this morning when I went to fill up and let's not forget the fact that gasoline is still cleaner burning than diesel (look beyond CO2, diesel has some other nasty pollutants like soot).
I think this is a great effort on VW's part and it's a step in the right direction but I don't see this being a success in the US, if it ever makes it over here.
I think this is a great effort on VW's part and it's a step in the right direction but I don't see this being a success in the US, if it ever makes it over here.
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written by Ben Clark, March 13, 2008
VW is looking to build their cars here. With the Euro hitting highs against the dollar for the foreseeable future, this may mean the the cost of this gas sipping VW's might come down once they are built here. Not to mention that saves on shipping them across the Atlantic which is not exactly a 'green' activity.
Another note on these VW diesels they have a catalytic converter like thing on them now that, along with the ultra-low sulfur diesel in all US pumps will make these baby's a lot cleaner than your 83 diesel Rabbit.
Another note on these VW diesels they have a catalytic converter like thing on them now that, along with the ultra-low sulfur diesel in all US pumps will make these baby's a lot cleaner than your 83 diesel Rabbit.
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written by dude, March 13, 2008
Remember that gasoline is more environment friendly when youre driving but pollutes more than the diesel when its being refined. In the end the CO2 released for the environment is the same, but is displaced in different places.
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written by Virgil, March 14, 2008
@Schmeltz
Wrong in assuming diesel and gas cost the same. Regular gas was $3.31 in upstate NY this morning, and diesel was $4.13. That just about wipes out any MPG advantage.
Of course, part of that price premium is because the refining capacity for diesel is lower here than in Europe. If the refiners kicked it up a notch, things might even out a bit. Still though, I don't see this VW as a viable option, except for those who have a pathological aversion to driving a pruis.
Wrong in assuming diesel and gas cost the same. Regular gas was $3.31 in upstate NY this morning, and diesel was $4.13. That just about wipes out any MPG advantage.
Of course, part of that price premium is because the refining capacity for diesel is lower here than in Europe. If the refiners kicked it up a notch, things might even out a bit. Still though, I don't see this VW as a viable option, except for those who have a pathological aversion to driving a pruis.
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written by nadja, March 15, 2008
I just wanted to mention that diesel is not necessarily better (CO2 considering) than gasoline. First, diesel cars are heavier which eats up some of the improvements. Second, they produce more particulate matter and NOx. Technologies that reduce those not so environmentally friendly substances eat up the rest of the CO2 improvement. So in the end, it is safe to say that diesel and gasoline cars are all the same. And only if you compare the full impact you can really say which one is really better, right?? :)
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written by Harry, March 16, 2008
I read that VW was coming out with a 3 cylinder "POLO" ( I think that was its name) which was like a Golf but just more efficient.
the VW polo is a much smaller car than the golf. not as small as a Smart ForTwo, but quite small. Hence the better mileage
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written by chris, March 17, 2008
First of all, there is a growing population of people who would be glad to pay 30k for a car that gets 69 mpg. VW already has a consumer who is used to having, and paying more for diesel, and the golf looks a lot better than the prius. If it has better handling...bonus.
Also, with a diesel engine you have the option of using waste oil which is free if you can connect with local food retailers.
It is time for toyota to take it to the next level, because they will be challenged, and i'm tired of looking at the prius.
Also, with a diesel engine you have the option of using waste oil which is free if you can connect with local food retailers.
It is time for toyota to take it to the next level, because they will be challenged, and i'm tired of looking at the prius.
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written by Mike, July 11, 2008
When factoring the environmental cost of the car, Prius owners tend to conveniently forget about all of the toxic materials that go into its manufacture.
Even old-school VW diesels get better mileage hands-down than a Prius: that is not debatable. But the VWs do not have hundreds of pounds of batteries that have criss-crossed the globe going from China to Germany to the US in the process of being made.
I'll take a bio-diesel fueled TDI any day, and the environment will thank me for it.
Even old-school VW diesels get better mileage hands-down than a Prius: that is not debatable. But the VWs do not have hundreds of pounds of batteries that have criss-crossed the globe going from China to Germany to the US in the process of being made.
I'll take a bio-diesel fueled TDI any day, and the environment will thank me for it.
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written by Wein, March 03, 2009
it's 2009 and diesel prices are starting to come down we own two cars one diesel one gas we're paying $2.13 for diesel $2.19 for gas at the same station. cars are long term investments just because diesel could be pricier than gas for a while does not mean it'll stay that way.
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Diesel contains more Carbon atoms per gallon and therefore puts more CO2 into the atmosphere per gallon than gasoline.