Recent Comment
Share
Honda has just released a smattering of new details on it's all-new Insight. The car will be the cheapest hybrid vehicle available when it goes on sale in the spring of 2009, but it won't be the most efficient.
I was truly hoping that the new Insight would take after its father. And while, obviously, it couldn't have hit the ridiculous numbers (beyond 70 mpg) of the original, tiny, two-seater Insight, I was at least hoping it would beat the Prius. But alas, the Insight will come in right around Honda's current hybrid offering, the hybrid Civic, about 42 mpg.
So what makes this car so great then, if it has the same mileage as a hybrid Civic and worse than the Prius?
Well, a few things, actually.
- It's cheaper than either the Prius ($22k) or the Civic Hybrid ($23.5k). So despite being less efficient, it might be more green just because more people will buy them. Honda is banking on selling 200,000 of them per year...a lofty goal.
- It's a dedicated hybrid...the only one besides the Prius (and the old Insight, if you want to count it.) Which isn't important at all for the environment, but it's important for people's desire to want to buy them. It's like having the whole car be a bumper sticker that says "I'm on the cutting edge of green technology!"
- It's pretty. Again, not important for the environment, but important when you're trying to sell 200,000 of them a year.
- Going from 40 to 50 mpg doesn't actually save all that much gas. Don't believe me, see our article on why MPG is a stupid measurement.
So yes...we want one. But we'd actually rather have a Volt, or some other car that doesn't burn any gas at all under normal circumstances. But I predict broad consumer appeal for the Insight...I think my wife is harboring a secret desire for one, so that may be a point of conflict between us.
Hits: 16174
Comments (32)
Subscribe to this comment's feed
written by Patrick, October 02, 2008
42 MPG is a disappointing number for this car. Infact Chrysler has reached that number putting 2.o Diesels in the Compass/Patriot/Caliber without a hybrid option for Europe. Chrysler should consider doing a Patriot and minivan Diesel Option. Toyota's current Corolla is only a few MPG off from this too. If I were shopping this market I'd consider a Corolla. You get 37 MPG and keep about 5 to 6,000 in your pocket to buy gas. Ok maybe 3,000 difference after hybrid tax break but still will put enough gas at 3.50 per gallon to go about 31,714 miles in a Carolla. I feel B20 Diesel Option would be great for all our vehicles. I'm not trying to sell out on hybrids. I think groups like Chrysler that have clean diesel technology need mate it with Hybrid Technology to get the most bang for the buck. Honda better do an awesome marketing job to sell this off. From what I see I'd be at Toyota buying a Corolla not a Civic Hybrid. My wife drive a Toyota Matrix. It's fuel milage is slightly less than the regular Corola. But it's got more cargo area which works well for a family of four. Tire wear is the only issue with this car so far. But considering it's got a timing chain and not a belt that offsets tire cost. We replaced our 97 Isuzu Rodeo with this car. Rodeo's only advantage was 3,500 # towing which I found I had no use of.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Hank, October 02, 2008
The payback on that car stretches well beyond the 7 year mark under normal driving conditions.
If the Insight lands under $18K at the dealers this could be one hot little car. I'm really glad it doesn't look as much like the Prius as the shots from a few months ago (not that I mind the Prius, we own one, but variety is good).
One way to look at the low MPG; manufacturers must be hitting the peak of what's possible when bolting a hybrid system onto an existing car, where as this car matches the Civic hybrid AND provides a platform for improvement over the next few years.
If the Insight lands under $18K at the dealers this could be one hot little car. I'm really glad it doesn't look as much like the Prius as the shots from a few months ago (not that I mind the Prius, we own one, but variety is good).
One way to look at the low MPG; manufacturers must be hitting the peak of what's possible when bolting a hybrid system onto an existing car, where as this car matches the Civic hybrid AND provides a platform for improvement over the next few years.
-
- +0
-
-
written by miltowny, October 02, 2008
The insight will likely offer more creature comforts that the civic and etc.
The interior space will likely be more well rounded, in comparison to other high MPG compacts. One should really compare the car to a mid-size sedan. My hope is that the car will become a functional option for those who are currently driving the Accord or Camry (30 mpg).
You will notice the trim options will be higher on the Insight, as with the Prius. Nav, Bluetooth, power everything. Smart companies are noticing people downsizing, and these people want goodies.
The interior space will likely be more well rounded, in comparison to other high MPG compacts. One should really compare the car to a mid-size sedan. My hope is that the car will become a functional option for those who are currently driving the Accord or Camry (30 mpg).
You will notice the trim options will be higher on the Insight, as with the Prius. Nav, Bluetooth, power everything. Smart companies are noticing people downsizing, and these people want goodies.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Ken Roberts, October 02, 2008
There's only so much you can do with hybrid technology, so I think your expectations are a little too high. Yes you can get ridiculous gas mileage out of other cars, but you must sacrifice on weight and power. Most people are not going to drive a golf cart just to help the environment.
This car will have a huge impact simply due to the value. You get a high mileage car for a very low price, and it comes with all of the features of a regular sedan. It's a green(er) car for the masses.
This car will have a huge impact simply due to the value. You get a high mileage car for a very low price, and it comes with all of the features of a regular sedan. It's a green(er) car for the masses.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Neil, October 02, 2008
I am glad to see Honda revive its Insight, the first gasoline-hybrid car sold in the United States. If the price comes in in the high teens, this will be a good thing. Honda Fits are flying off dealer lots as we speak because they offer the magical combination of low price, high mileage and reliable quality.
The styling cues on the Insight definitely come from the Honda FCX Clarity for the front end and the previous generation Insight for the backend. Of course the overall shape is dictated by aerodynamics, thusly it has the same overall shape of the first generation Insight and larger Prius.
Mileage in the 40's is great for a car that will have flexible storage room like a hatchback. Also until we see a significant technology change (i.e. something like Lithium Ion batteries, supercapacitors, etc.) - I don't expect anything more than incremental improvements in mileage.
Finally diesel fuel contains at least 10% more energy per gallon than regular gasoline, so comparing gasoline MPG to Diesel is like comparing large apples to jumbo apples. Of course diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, but I'm not sure if they are more efficient than a hybrid drive train.
I think Honda will hit a home run with this car much like the Accord CVCC Hatchback in the late 1970's.
Cheers!
The price is definitely right
The styling cues on the Insight definitely come from the Honda FCX Clarity for the front end and the previous generation Insight for the backend. Of course the overall shape is dictated by aerodynamics, thusly it has the same overall shape of the first generation Insight and larger Prius.
Mileage in the 40's is great for a car that will have flexible storage room like a hatchback. Also until we see a significant technology change (i.e. something like Lithium Ion batteries, supercapacitors, etc.) - I don't expect anything more than incremental improvements in mileage.
Finally diesel fuel contains at least 10% more energy per gallon than regular gasoline, so comparing gasoline MPG to Diesel is like comparing large apples to jumbo apples. Of course diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, but I'm not sure if they are more efficient than a hybrid drive train.
I think Honda will hit a home run with this car much like the Accord CVCC Hatchback in the late 1970's.
Cheers!
The price is definitely right
-
- +0
-
-
written by George, October 02, 2008
Hank -
The Volt may be cool, but is it worth the year of having your wife give you "that look" whenever one of those 220,000 Insights drive by?
The Volt may be cool, but is it worth the year of having your wife give you "that look" whenever one of those 220,000 Insights drive by?
-
- +0
-
-
written by Nick Wright, October 02, 2008
I think the description of MPG as a stupid measurement is... well... stupid.
That's like saying increasing from $4 to $5 is better than increasing from $5.50 to $10 because it's a bigger percentage increase. I'd still rather have the $10, wouldn't you?
That's like saying increasing from $4 to $5 is better than increasing from $5.50 to $10 because it's a bigger percentage increase. I'd still rather have the $10, wouldn't you?
-
- +0
-
-
written by Jake, October 02, 2008
umm the percent increase from 5.50 to 10 is not less than the percent increase of 4 to 5; it's greater.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Tom Van Sistine, October 02, 2008
Yawn, My 1995 Geo Metro is still getting 48MPG and cost $8200. High mileage does not have to be complicated. On the flip side what if my Metro was a hybrid? Would it have gotten 80MPG? What if it were more aerodynamic, say camera rear mirrors, hidden windshield wipers and wheel covers like the original Impact. Without being a hybrid I probably would get 55MPG!
I agree though that MPG not the best measure. Getting SUVs to be smart and get up to say 28MPG would save a ton more gas and pollution.
Tom
I agree though that MPG not the best measure. Getting SUVs to be smart and get up to say 28MPG would save a ton more gas and pollution.
Tom
-
- +0
-
-
written by loosely_coupled, October 03, 2008
On a related note, I'm wondering why this car can nearly rival the Prius in MPG. The Toyota "Synergy Drive" is much more advanced than what Honda is using, a so-called "mild hybrid", right? So how can it compete so well? Is it a lot lighter or more aerodynamic? Or is it's engine significantly weaker in acceleration?
-
- +0
-
-
written by Eddy De Clercq, October 03, 2008
I don't understand why a Prius is always taken as a measure whilst some diesels are more efficient this hybrid. As mentioned in this blog, two journalists drove from London to Geneva (approx 880 km.) with a Toyota Prius and a BMW 520d Efficient Dynamics. The BMW was the most energy efficient.
-
- +1
-
-
written by Nuveshen, October 03, 2008
@Eddy
the author of that blog isn't very good at math, take a look at the comments in his blog. diesel is much more energy dense.
the author of that blog isn't very good at math, take a look at the comments in his blog. diesel is much more energy dense.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Ian George, October 03, 2008
In a study done on the Insight-I by the EPA in 2004 showed the Insight-I Engine in Lean Burn operation had a efficiency of 48% and also reduced engine friction by 8% compared to the low friction the Insight-I engine already had before it was in lean burn.... very few vehicle diesel engines can get above this kind of efficiency... and then on top of the engineering marvel of the Insight-I's gasoline engine... the hybrid drive further increases the system efficiency.
--------------
so the answer is that the Insight-I Engine was more efficient ... hopefully they have taken this part of the Insight-I to the Insight-II... also the Manual transmission option on the Insight-I was more efficient a transmission than the Prius's Synergy drive... The benefit of the synergy drive is that it makes it easier for a less skilled driver to keep the gasoline engine in a sweet spot of efficiency... even if the Prius peak engine efficiency was lower and the efficiency of the transmission was lower than the Insight-I's , this allowed it to return good numbers by staying close to its sweet spot more of the time.
--------------
of course driver skill still plays a major role... as crappy drivers get 40 MPG out of a Insight-I or 30MPG out of a Prius... while good drivers regularly get over 70MPG in either vehicle ... same is true with any vehicle... some people are just better drivers than others.
--------------
so the answer is that the Insight-I Engine was more efficient ... hopefully they have taken this part of the Insight-I to the Insight-II... also the Manual transmission option on the Insight-I was more efficient a transmission than the Prius's Synergy drive... The benefit of the synergy drive is that it makes it easier for a less skilled driver to keep the gasoline engine in a sweet spot of efficiency... even if the Prius peak engine efficiency was lower and the efficiency of the transmission was lower than the Insight-I's , this allowed it to return good numbers by staying close to its sweet spot more of the time.
--------------
of course driver skill still plays a major role... as crappy drivers get 40 MPG out of a Insight-I or 30MPG out of a Prius... while good drivers regularly get over 70MPG in either vehicle ... same is true with any vehicle... some people are just better drivers than others.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Lee Cage, October 03, 2008
My 8 year old VW 1.9 diesel averages 55 mpg and you can get upto 68 mpg on motorway/highway runs. You can buy a good second hand one for around £1200. The new generation of compact VW/Seat diesels (Bluemotion £11K) can average 74 mpg at 99gm of CO2/km. Whats going on in the USA with your cars, can't you buy the high mpg cars that are available in other countries?
-
- +0
-
-
written by Lee Cage, October 03, 2008
My 8 year old VW 1.9 diesel averages 55 mpg and you can get upto 68 mpg on motorway/highway runs. You can buy a good second hand one for around £1200. The new generation of compact VW/Seat diesels (Bluemotion £11K) can average 74 mpg at 99gm of CO2/km. Whats going on in the USA with your cars, can't you buy the high mpg cars that are available in other countries?
-
- +0
-
-
written by odograph, October 03, 2008
I think you came close to saying that the difference between 42 and 100 mpg does not justify the cost of the Volt, and I might agree.
At the standard 12K miles per year, and $4/gal, a 42 mpg car will only cost you $1143 in annual fuel costs. Would I spend an extra $20K on a depreciating vehicle to spend less? Probably not.
(We are far better off, as a nation, getting as many people (2x?) into 40 mpg class cars.)
At the standard 12K miles per year, and $4/gal, a 42 mpg car will only cost you $1143 in annual fuel costs. Would I spend an extra $20K on a depreciating vehicle to spend less? Probably not.
(We are far better off, as a nation, getting as many people (2x?) into 40 mpg class cars.)
-
- +0
-
-
written by Francis, October 03, 2008
42 mpg might not seem all that promising, but it is for us with crap cars and little money. My 1994 jeep cherokee gets around 14 mpg, and my Dodge Minivan(I believe it's a 1992) gets 17. Most people who make under $40,000 drive these type of cars. I'd absolutley love to have a Volt or Pruis, but 22-23k sounds like a bit much for me.
-
- +0
-
-
written by jake3988, October 03, 2008
Honestly unless you're driving A LOT, going from 40mpg to even 100000mpg ain't going to save much.
It's anything that gets sub-20mpg (and especially sub 10mpg) that's the problem.
Honestly, if every person who drove a car that gets sub20mpg and got a car that gets 40mpg we'd save a heck of a lot more fuel than people who already have good gas mileage and are trading to even better.
At around 30mpg it's all just gravy. And in fact with the energy costs of production, it probably isn't even worth going higher. Please keep that in mind.
It's anything that gets sub-20mpg (and especially sub 10mpg) that's the problem.
Honestly, if every person who drove a car that gets sub20mpg and got a car that gets 40mpg we'd save a heck of a lot more fuel than people who already have good gas mileage and are trading to even better.
At around 30mpg it's all just gravy. And in fact with the energy costs of production, it probably isn't even worth going higher. Please keep that in mind.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Karkus, October 03, 2008
The author makes it seems like the old Insight was rated WAY higher than this new one. In reality, it's only 5-11 mpg lower (depending on which version you compare), using the NEW EPA MPG test.
-
- +0
-
-
written by MC, October 03, 2008
In reference to the MPG of the Volt-- the primary point of the Volt is that 80% of the commuting public drives less than 40 miles a day and, hence, would use no gas at all. For an average year (with some longer trips, etc.) you could conservatively get over 300 MPG...
-
- +0
-
-
written by Ken Roberts, October 03, 2008
There's a lot of talk about the economics of buying a fuel efficient car. I just want to say that I drive a 96 Camaro and spend less on fuel than the vast majority of hybrid owners. I do this by living slightly more than a mile from my work, with reduces my fuel bill to almost nothing, and I don't have to pay for an expensive car.
So if you want to be really green, live close to your job. I know that's not possible for everyone, but I'm sure that most of you could do so if you paid a little more in rent/mortgage. You might be able to make up the difference in fuel costs, but if not, then you still have the vast time savings.
Time was always the biggest concern for me, and I encourage you all to be more time conscious yourself. Do you really want to spend hours of your life every week stuck in traffic or on the road? Save time, money, and live green by living close to work.
So if you want to be really green, live close to your job. I know that's not possible for everyone, but I'm sure that most of you could do so if you paid a little more in rent/mortgage. You might be able to make up the difference in fuel costs, but if not, then you still have the vast time savings.
Time was always the biggest concern for me, and I encourage you all to be more time conscious yourself. Do you really want to spend hours of your life every week stuck in traffic or on the road? Save time, money, and live green by living close to work.
-
- +1
-
-
written by Paul, October 04, 2008
Well folks, let me just say we can talk all day long about EPA ratings but as its been said before, how you drive is the most important way to save fuel. I am not saying hang out in the left lane at 50 mph on the expressway, what i am saying is back off the throttle and slow down!
In all of my travels since fuel in the US has skyrocketed, i have yet to see more than 1 person in any given week who has changed their driving habits. Still slamming the gas from lights, still driving their Prius at 75-80 on the highway, all the while complaining about fuel prices and mpg ratings. Gimmie a break! :P
In all of my travels since fuel in the US has skyrocketed, i have yet to see more than 1 person in any given week who has changed their driving habits. Still slamming the gas from lights, still driving their Prius at 75-80 on the highway, all the while complaining about fuel prices and mpg ratings. Gimmie a break! :P
-
- +0
-
-
written by MoonMan, October 16, 2008
Has anyone looked back a few years to notice that this kind of mileage is PATHETIC. The 1993 civic hatchback could get about 40mpg on a regular gas engine. Why does it take 15 years and a hybrid engine to squeek out 2mpg extra??
-
- +0
-
-
written by Ash, November 04, 2008
If it doesn't get a manual transmission option, then it will jsut be an other trendy pice of crap.
CVT is infficient and stupid for this type of drivetrain. Honda, please give us back manuals in your hybrids! My Insight 1.0 manual is the best. But I want 2 more seats without losing manual trans.
CVT is infficient and stupid for this type of drivetrain. Honda, please give us back manuals in your hybrids! My Insight 1.0 manual is the best. But I want 2 more seats without losing manual trans.
-
- +0
-
-
written by gordon eatman, January 14, 2009
Lee Cage should know most Americans would rather start more wars for cheaper oil than buy fuel efficient vehicles. We need those Hummers to go down to the 7-11.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Ray Fontanes, January 14, 2009
If you really want great MPGs you need to do it yourself. What we have to buy and what we can build are like night and day. Get on the internet and google HHO or waste vegatable fuel systems. They work if you do it right. Is there maintance? Some more than others. Will you get between 90 and 250 MPGs? Yes! Get what you want or get what they give you.
-
- +0
-
-
written by amortization, February 02, 2009
Mmm, yes! I finally see what I was looking for. This is the car of my dreams. I can't wait to have one for myself. Although we are passing through an financial crisis, I just can't pass like it doesn't exist.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Amortization Schedule, September 08, 2009
"I was truly hoping that the new Insight would take after its father. And while, obviously, it couldn't have hit the ridiculous numbers (beyond 70 mpg) of the original, tiny, two-seater Insight" Well that is true, but just look at the design, it worth buying one.
-
- +0
-
-
written by Eco Man, May 10, 2013
prices are coming down and efficiency is going up..it'll take more time but things are headed in right direction.
-
- +0
-
-
Write comment
| < Prev | Next > |
|---|
Thanks!