MAY 14

You know like Edison said "I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work”
The same thing has to happen with all new technologies.

Unless I'm missing something it seems the only problem was poor management. The possibilities are definitely still there for algae and it worries me when people doubt an idea because someone (or a company) who attempted to implement it failed. The Idea is didn't fail, the people that attempted to implement it failed (or at least the method they used to attempt to utilize the idea fail).

Good People can die and fail and lie and steal, Good Ideas are bulletproof (and can keep going forever).
Dont Give Up on Good Ideas People. Stay on the Green path where it can be forged and we will match into the future with heads high, pride full, lungs clean, and pockets full.

(sorry i kinda turned that into a rant)

-eco-geek-out-
EDDnorris

Hank,

i think that you could probably do some really interesting writing by doing some investigations into the algae field. I formerly worked in biofuels and what was clear to everyone in my company is that these companies raising 10's or 100's of millions of dollars had very little other than some interesting genetics and possibly a small pilot scale reactor. the surface in much of the algae world is very thin and easily scratched, I think.

How much does them going bust actually have to do with the science of algae fuels? While algae fuels is an emerging science, it seems like the science of mismanagement is well-established. Too bad money, once again, had to rain on our actually-do-something-about-the-environment parade.

Greenfuel kept all of their processes under patent keeping any other algae companies from doing the same method.

Algae is the only realistic way to get enough liquid fuel per acre to meet global demand, nothing changes that.

Any hydrocarbon, biodiesel included, produces two greenhouse gases, water and carbon dioxide, when burned. Biodiesel is NOT a solution to shrinking the carbon footprint!

Algae looks great at the small scale, but I have yet to hear of any process that can scale in any usable form. Until that hurdle can (and if) be passed, Algae based energy appears to be a dead end.

To -Worried ;
I am with you a 110 percent. Good ideas are always good ideas no matter what. I believe there are people who can make it work. Small footprint ,high energy yield , and CO 2 usage is a formula that needs more consideration. Lets not give up the ship

Glenn, explain to me how you are going to move people and freight in airplanes and on large seagoing vessels by any other means than the use of jet turbine or internal combustion engines that burn liquid fuel? In the short term, individual short distance transportation using electric vehicles is feasible, but mass transit via air or freight via locomotive or cargo shit is simply not (although revisiting the idea of nuclear powered commercial ships and trains is probably worthwhile). The best way to mitigate this in the short term is to use biofuels rather than petrofuels to move people and goods on a mass scale.

The first thing we need to do is to produce diesel engines from the factory as they were originally intended to burn RAW non-transesterified hydrocarbons such a straight vegetable or algae oils. Biodiesel requires the use of petrochemically derived methanol and lab grade lye such as KOH (as far as I know no one has successfully done biodiesel transesterification using corn/cellulose ethanol... and besides we all know what a losing proposition ethanol is anyway). Cargo ships and locomotives that use diesel-electric powerplants could be easily retrofitted with engines that burned pure non-petrochemical hydrocarbon oils and use non-petrochemical lubricants. Getting companies to actually make the relatively simple modifications the engines such that they can burn these fuels under all relevant environmental conditions is the hard part since none of them seem to think anything other than dinodiesel is an effective fuel hydrocarbon for diesel combustion engines... which is very much not the case.

Glenn, you obviously don't know how photosynthesis and the conservation of matter work. In photosynthesis, plants (algae included) take in water, sunlight and carbon. The release O2. This means that the biomass contains the H2 and C. Conservation of matter states that matter can never be created nor destroyed. That means that one atom of C will always be an atom of C, it will only be in different forms and bonded with other elements. When the C and H2 from the fuel derived from algae is burned, it will be released back into the atmosphere as water (usually vapor) and CO2. This water and CO2 is now available for photosynthesis. It's called the Carbon Cycle.

Rog, I agree with you to a certain degree. You are very right about the usefulness of biodiesel. You are spot on how the internal combustion engine best in many applications. However, I wouldn't be so quick to discount ethanol (especially cellulosic ethanol). Sure, it has its faults (especially corn ethanol), but so does biodiesel. Just because it does not work 100% now does not mean it can't be improved and become a viable technology. As awesome as diesel engines are, they aren't perfect. Gas/ethanol engines do have some applications in which they are better suited. Remember, much like biodiesel, cellulose ethanol can be derived from recycled sources. Similarly to diesel engines, gas engines can also be retrofitted and modified to run on ethanol. Just because it is not perfect now does not mean it won't work in the near future.

The problem that we are seeing now is the funding of long term R+D with short term promises. Algae has a lot of promise. In fact I believe that carbon based fuels are so amazing, and third or fourth generation biofuels so promising that the question is one of time and economic stability. We need enough money and time, not excessive promises of yield and timing.

This is disappointing, but it is often only through failure that one can reach success.
Please keep us updated on this topic.

Build a Kinder Earth

This was poor management, I agree. Start ups often fall short of the expectation, but new technologies take a bit of time. Algae may not be pumped into personal automobiles, but I believe it will find it's home in jet engines.

I really like the concept of algae biofuels. It seems to make a lot of sense. Let's hope the technology is advancing as most believe and we see some promising results soon. If algae works it could be a significant contributor to the energy mix.

This is no easy process. Just because a shot misses its target doesnt mean the gun is broken. No money for bullets is not the guns fault.

I just recently bought stock in a desalinization company with a new technology that recently went public after working on the problem for about 20 years. Their story is filled with drama, including losing two critical executives/scientists in one plane crash. No venture capitalist would wait 20 years for a return on investment; dedication, lots of mistanes and sucesses, and gradually increasing contracts brought them the whole way. If I can refind their story I'll post a link.
The moral: patience. Don't quit when one company fails. Hope that they will sell their patents or find new investors and get better financial advice the second time. Boeing is working on algal jet fuel (I forget with whom they are working, but Virgin Airlines is also interested.) We're too used to instant everything; inventing a new technology takes time. To paraphrase a song lyric, "We've only just begun!"

Saying that because one greenfuels went bust means Algae fuels don't work, makes as much sense as saying if a genetic research company goes bust, genes don't work... we just haven't figured them out and optimized yet.

How about burning algae fuel or chicken fat or swamp gas or sawdust or anything combustible in an external combustion engine?

The Cyclone engine is also powered by waste heat and solar.

Nothing wrong with algae fuel at all but there will be many stumbles on the way to market.

Best, Terry

When the petroleum and automobile industry first
started in the U.S. there were numerous in number.
Greenfuels going bust may be nothing more than
this an attrition to this the Green industy.

Such events have occured in almost every new
industry in the U.S. from the railroad to software.

There is no need to throw in the towel in the algea fuel industry.

Ultimately, when biofuels become competitive, they still will involve combustion. The release of CO2 is obviously neutral, but other combustion products such as NOx and CO are not. Therefore, for locations like the Los Angeles basin, electric cars still have advantages because they release no smog producing products.

Obviously we should continue on the biofuels path, but we should not neglect the electric power path.

Seriously, how can you guys downplay algae just because one company fails? It doesn't make any sense. Algae technology will grow eventually, we just have to wait for the science and the money to start flowing.

A lot of start-ups are going under, and finding investor capital is simply hard to do at the moment.

I believe Cyclone Power, mentioned by Terry above, has successfully burned algae fuel in their break-through external combustion engine.

Take a look at your modern petroleum processing factory. Do you think when we first started extracting black gold from the ground these facilities sprouted up overnight? Of course not. Algae fuel development will probably be no different.

Hell...if cold fusion can be back in the news as a promising power source...why not algae?

Inpatient Venture Capital wrong model

The technology is fine, like others have said it takes time and often doesn't fit the VC model which in my thinking is a piss poor model. What we need is capital that is patient and is less demanding in expectations of returns. Capital that is about building local economies and sufficient returns with good paying jobs. VC needs to transform to local economies investing in local modest returns, then the conversation changes.

I totally agree that just because one company fails that does not mean that algae farming will not succeed one day. I think there are parallels between this situation - with lots of firms competing with subtly different processes - and the current status of solar cells, where there are several firms investigating processes which are much cheaper than the current ones. As an investor, it is very hard to guess which is going to win out so which to invest in, so the tendency is not to do so at all.

Yeah! When a new technology is arising of course there are problems. I still think there is future for algae. Off course, the discover of the new bactery to digest cellulose seems pretty cool to, maybe of better interest to the rest of the world. But let's see... If I was a island i would prefer Algae, if I was United emirates, cape Verde, Maldives I would definitely bet on Algae.

About the issue that they still release CO2... That's true but thanks to photosynthesis the budget is 0. CO2 out, CO2 in! Now a days is Co2 out Co2 out...and millions of years latter Co2 in.
Let's close the circle

The gov. is putting most of the funding in corn based and cellulosis based biodiesal. However they are practically ignorng algea. Algea is constantly becoming more and more feasible and the technology has more promise than cellolosic ethenol and way more promise than corn ethonal. Corn was a dead end at the very start and the only reason it got as far as it did is because the gov. put so moch incentves and tax rebates on it to make it cheaper. So what i am trying to say is that the gov. needs to put funding into technologes that wll work in the long term not just in the short term other wise it is a waste of money. Algea is the only combustibe fuel a see a future for.

We need more algae!!!

My husband and a few partners are growing it at a capacity they were told they could not as well as the largest . The algae will be used for plastic, feedstock, etc. It is: Renewable and Sustainable Solutions for Today's Biggest Challenges. It is huge and amazing at how much there is to be used from algae as well as the benefits for every community, state, country and even the whole world. What they have tapped into is mind boggling for me and exciting for them. I am excited about the whole thing and do not want to say too much. The Governor, The USDA, and others are on board with what they are doing. They already have some investors but are in need of one or more to help get the facility running 100%. If you are seriously interested in a GREENER future and can help or know of someone who might be interested please email me and I can get you more information. I do not want to put the info. here in fear of overloading the company with people just wanting more info. but not wanting to help in anyway. Please do not take this the wrong way for I am doing this on their behalf because I believe so strongly in what they are doing and am trying to help in anyway I can on my own. My email is This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it '> This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it Thank you for your time.

Thanks for the post! This is so interesting. I really like what someone else said about Edison not failing, just finding 10,000 ways that don't work. This industry, along with solar panels honolulu are fascinating and have so much potential. I look forward to good news in the future.