JAN 25

But is that a value for a subsidized cost of wind?

Fuel Cells that use Natural Gas to produce electricity do not emit CO2.
They are very efficient too.
However, for most people they would be considered expensive.

Gas is "subsidized" by passing on the environmental costs to the public (e.g., ghg effects, ground and surface water pollution, birds and other animals dying in the mudpits, and so on) ... It may be a bit more involved than just comparing the cost/kwh.

Do the unquestioning green cheerleaders realize that there are serious health effects coming to light which are being brushed aside (dare I say suppressed) in the haste to make money out of green energy.

There are many instances of planning approvals for wind power plants being rolled into communities where it clearly is questionable. By all means establish wind power plants but it is important to place them out of harm's way to humans. The precautionary principle must be applied in locating these plants.

May 31, 2007...Documented in a press release dated May 31, 2007 from the Vibro-Acoustic Disease (VAD) research group in Portugal, people living in the shadow of industrial wind turbines have moved a step closer to understanding the nature of the Wind Turbine Syndrome many of them experience and complain about.
Professor Mariana Alves-Pereira, Dept. of Environmental Sciences & Engineering, New University of Lisbon, Caparica, Portugal, has for many years been part of a team of physicians and scientists studying the pathophysiology of low-frequency noise and infrasound on humans. She is Assistant Coordinator of the Vibroacoustic Disease Project. Alves-Pereira and colleagues have been doing epidemiologic studies of airline pilots and technicians and other people who are chronically exposed to low-frequency noise and infrasound. The effects are grim: cardiovascular, respiratory, neurologic, and renal pathology and symptoms, which they call vibroacoustic disease (VAD).
*VAD is well established in the clinical literature. It has been amply documented and is readily detected by a variety of diagnostic tests.

Alves-Pereira (an acoustical engineer) and Dr. Nuno Castelo Branco (a surgical pathologist) recently took numerous noise/vibration measurements within a Portuguese home surrounded by four (4) industrial wind turbines. The closest turbine is nearly 1000 feet (300 meters), from the affected home. The turbines have been operating since November 2006. The report concludes:

"These results irrefutably demonstrate that windmills in the proximity of residential areas produce acoustical environments that can lead to the development of VAD in the nearby home-dwellers. In order to protect Public Health, ILFN-producing devices must not be placed in locations that will contaminate residential areas with this agent of disease."

I'd like to add that the infra-sound generated by wind turbines aren't specific to wind turbines and are also produced by highways and heavy traffic areas in general, airports and under flight-paths and industrial areas with large machines in operation. There are also very possible solutions to the infra-sound problem ranging from the development of new sound-dampening systems to simple buffer zones. Infra-sound is nothing new to industrialized society. I actually feel like the development of wind turbines could even spur the interest in developing solutions to this industrial problem thanks to people who took the time to worry about how it affects us. Similar to how the Space Program led to the development of technologies that solved problems and made life easier for all of us. Big new technologies do that. I actually think it's pretty cool how things work out like that.

Just in case you're interested, I don't think wind energy is the best solution. It is merely part of the solution to decreasing our greenhouse gas emissions. geothermal energy, solar energy and an energy efficient way of life are also necessary to solve our global problem.

Sounds from wind turbines causing heart problems.That is PURE CRAP right out of the clean coal play book.

Industrial Wind Turbines are not like the small turbines people have with battery back-ups to get off the grid. The electricity isn't stored and you can't control the wind, so it needs to be paired with a form of generation that can be controlled. The choice for pairing is gas. That's why we're building more gas plants and will need to continue building more.

Ever wonder why it's the gas guys like T. Boone that's into building wind turbines?

How much cost efficient is it?

I did a little digging and found that windpower is much less productive,
and much nastier than I thought...

http://www.aweo.org/problemwithwind.html#consumption
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1452529/Wind-farms-make-people-sick-who-live-up-to-a-mile-away.html

yikes!

I'm feeling very discouraged at this - yet another case of corporate greed and deceit,
and government incompetence and complicity.

We at West Wind Power have come up a new nano-wind turbine design which will efficiently recycle urban landscapes in low wind environments for economically viable wind energy production with no government subsidies. We are currently beta testing and it is very positive.

@Temujin -- A fuel cell running on natural gas WILL produce CO2, unless it also has some type of carbon-capture technology. (And I'm not aware of any current fuel cell systems with that capability.) However, it is very efficient, so it won't produce a lot of CO2, and it doesn't produce other pollutants like NOx, which is produced by gas turbines used for electricity generation.

@irish reed and ppnl -- Natural gas also receives production tax subsidies, through depletion allowances. I don't know how the depletion allowances compare to the current tax credit for wind production, but the fact is that at the moment, virtually all fossil fuels AND renewable energy sources receive some sort of tax subsidy for their production.

@asaf -- At the moment, solar energy is not nearly as competitive as wind, although it's slowly getting cheaper. But it has other advantages such as the ability to install it on roof-tops, thus effectively using no "land area" at all. And of course it doesn't have the acoustic issues of wind. That's why, as RWFlynn said, we'll need multiple types of renewables, each of which has advantages for certain markets.

Wind Farms take up huge amounts of land for the energy generated. There are no land use laws relating to them, so they are being built where you couldn't build a cabin. They are killing countless numbers of bats, endangered birds, golden eagles, displacing wildlife, and the wind farm builders deny any problems. Taxpayers should not be supporting this industry that is not green and not healthy for people or the environment. Makes me want to vote republican just to stop the "gold rush" to take our money and give us so little in the way of jobs, energy, etc. A newly proposed wind farm in Union County, Oregon will cost $600 million to build and produce 8-15 full time jobs. I think there are better investments for tax dollars!!!!

Wind energy is cost competitive to other fuel sources like natural gas. It is also the least expensive of all renewable energy sources. Because the wind is free, wind energy can provide a stable long-term price for power production.

VAD??? yeah sure thing! automobiles and transit systems. coal and neuclear plants, jets and planes all have been killing us forever with VAD, so fear windpower it doubtless will do the same.