OCT 10

"regenerative breaking" is an awesome concept, as it would likely involve the spontaneous healing of broken objects, but it would do very little for our planet's environment. Hank, I'm sorry, but you'll need to spell braking correctly. The rest of the geeks look down upon those that can't spell. :)

Diesel locomotives have been hybrid vehicles from the beginning. It seems regenerative braking is the only improvement here...and maybe a more efficient engine.

first commentor: Hank DID spell braking correctly. You assumed it was wrong and didn't actually look at the word. To your credit, You didn't double-fuck it up in your post. Good for you.

second commentor: you're kind of right. Diesel locomotives are diesel powered and electric driven, but they do not have the capability of storing electric energy. IE: no batteries. Traditional diesel locomotives are merely indirectly driven, not really hybrid. The advantage to this system is that electric drive is capable of functioning at any speed, whereas the diesel would require massive clutches to initiate movement, not to mention a multi-speed gearbox. The downside is the multi-stage power conversion results in several points of efficiency loss, exacerbated by the roughly 30% efficiency of the diesel engine in the first place. Never mind that they actually burn bunker fuel, halfway between tar and diesel, not the cleaner, more refined stuff that is used on roads.

My comment is yay for hybrids, but let's push for all 100% electric, with clean, renewable sources distributed across an international grid. Esp. wind, tidal, and damless hydroelectric.

There are massive numbers of 100% electric, high speed trains in the UK, and doubt the rest of Europe and the world. The trains don't have batteries, just electric overhead lines.

FIRST hybrid train? I think not. What about Railpower's Green Goat?

http://www.railpower.com/products_hl_ggseries.html

It's been running for years. Admittedly it's doing a lot more utilitarian work than the Bombarier hybrid is over in Europe, but nonetheless, I would think the Green Goat can claim "first" hybrid train status, as I first hear of it at least a couple of years ago.

but remember that SNCF's alternative was electrifying these corridors and running pure electric. Like most of their trains.

Also, why are we dragging batteries along with the vehicle when we could put the regenerated power back into the grid on a normal electric train? Hello?

This is greenwashing at its best.

http://www.greencarcongress.co...tting.html

JR East Putting Diesel Hybrid Train into Commercial Service
29 July 2007

Asahi Shimbun. East Japan Railway Co. (JR East) is putting its diesel-electric hybrid New Energy Train (earlier post) into commercial service on 31 July.

The New Energy Train cars use twin 95 kW electric motors (to deliver grade ability at the same level as that of a new model railcar), a 330 kW diesel engine powering a 180 kW generator and a 10 kWh lithium-ion battery pack. The batteries are charged both by the generator and by regenerative braking.

The diesel hybrid is a precursor to a fuel-cell hybrid traction system currently under development.

ya, Bombardier...Canada, what, what!??

Yeh, Bombardier ain't from Canada. They are from Quebec!

Great train. Less CO2 for our planet.

I think the goverment should give interest free loans for people that want solar panels from there homes

Think how much energy that could save if every home in America had soalr panels on them.

let's not forget that 100% electric trains have been out for quite a while now, this hybrid model is less that breath taking.
However it is a step up if countries are still using diesel locomotives

This piece has obviously been updated to reflect the comments and inaccuracies of the newswire. You should also note that the word braking has been completely removed from the original section.

Many a year ago, the New York, New Haven, and Hartford Railroad put into service some diesel-electric locomotives that were capable of running off of third-rail power. They were built by General Motors' Electro-Motive Division, and were given the model number FL9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_FL9

1) "Hybrid" can mean a lot of things. In case of this French train, it's being capable of running from the catenary and self-powered (diesel) at the same time.

2) The Green Goat, as well as the Japanese New Technology Train, is another kind of hybrid: battery/diesel. Such energy storage combination has been used for some smaller locomotives much earlier, though it was less efficient. Another possibility for energy storage, tested in the Alstom prototype LIREX (which also tested many technologies for the train in the article), is flywheels.

3) But the French train is not the world's first catenary-fed/diesel-fed hibrid, either. For example, in Japan there were multiple units with a diesel in one car and pantograph on the other, and a lot of newer catenary maintenance vehicles were such hybrids. The above mentioned FL9s were another.

4) What's great in this new French train is that both drives use the same motors, and the machinery has a small enough size that they use the same space and non-hybrid drives. (This train is from the so-called AGC family, which already has both electric and diesel
versions.)

5) Not all diesel trains are diesel-electric. Somewhat surprisingly diesel-mechanic ones are still built (for example the Desiro Classic multiple units of Siemens), and diesel-hydraulic ones too.

6) The benefit of electric motors is that they are so small and relatively maintenance-free -- and thus one can place one on each axle. Thus since the thirties, the diesels in diesel-electrics don't power one giant but four-six smaller motors.

7) Sorry for the nitpick, but a "locomotive" is a self-propelled unit with no passengers, a single-car self-propelled unit carying passengers is a "motor car", while one with multiple cars is a "multiple unit".

8) On regenerative braking: with modern AC power electronics, one can get regenerative braking efficiency well beyond 90% -- that is within the locomotive, energy storage resp. grid loss across the catenary lessens that.

9) SNCF's unelectrified lines are mostly branchlines, where electrification is deemed too uneconomic. (Tho', in Switzerland and to a lesser extent Austria, even the branchlines got wires, but that was for strategic reasons -- against coal import shortages.) So that wasn't the 'alternative'. The thing is that a lot of branchline services actually start out from a major town, and travel along an electrified mainline until the junction station. To not use the diesels under catenary is the improvement here.

10) The efficiency increase with battery comes from two sources: (a) the diesel engine can be run at its most efficient rpm more of the time, (b) braking energy, that would otherwise be wasted (e.g. just become heat), can be stored.

One more nitpick: Bombardier is a Canadian company, but a large part of its rail branch consists of European companies bought up in the past two decades. The AGCs are built at the former ANF-Industries site in Créspin (bought 1989).

A few points to clear up.

Diesel electric opperation for trains is not new almost all diesel locomotives and some multiple units use a diesel engine to drive a generator which powers electric motors mounted near the wheels.

The concept of a locomotive or multiple unit which can operate on electrified lines and using a diesel engine on non-electrified lines is also not new, see the British Class 73 locomotive for an example.

ReGen braking also is not new, but it can only be used on electrified lines as diesel electrics can't store the electricity. Some Diesel Electrics have rheostatic braking which uses the same principle as ReGen but dumps the electricity into resistors.

What is new about this is that it is a diesel electric with a battery and ReGen. This means that on electrified lines it operates on the overheads. On non-electrified lines it uses the diesel which charges the battery to drive the traction motors, this for the reasons explained above is more efficient. Having the battery also allows ReGen to be used on non-electrified lines which isn't currently the case.

What is really important about this train is Hybrid Diesel is a bridging technology for Hydrogen Fuel Cell trains as when Fuel Cells become advanced enough they can replace the diesel engine as has been been (experimentally) with both the Green Goat and the Japanese NE Train.

I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Patricia

http://lioneltrains.info