NOV 05

These really look like something that could easily line a city street like lamp posts. There eligant and would spin like made in some of the windier corridors in any city.

This is wonderful. It doesn't even look like a power source so much as it does a piece of art. It seems as though they have thought of everything because it is even safe for birds. Now the only thing is, is it affordable to the average household?

Might be a pretty piece of yard art, but without some performance data it's just something spinning in the wind.

Show me how much power it generates in low speed, fluky breezes - how it performs in gale force winds.

Show me how it compared (dollar for dollar) to conventional small scale wind turbines.

If you want low profile I think the wind belt still makes more sense.

How much?

When they have those shots of the turbine spinning rapidly, it looks like a time-lapse shot... the clouds are moving pretty quickly.

This looks really cool! How long will it take to save enough to recoup the installation cost?

Ok this looks like a great idea. But where are the numbers to support it. Costs of startup, maintenance, installation. And how does it perform under extreme conditions such as no wind. Does it use power? How does it perform with 60 mph winds? What if a storms comes through damaging it? How much to fix it? Show me the numbers.

This is obviously a promotional vid. You want numbers, I'm sure they have a website. Intellectual curiosity FTW!!

Ya... I would like to know the stats as well. However, the website doesn't seem to provide much for details on specs or pricing. Even their calculator is broken. Mmmm.... why not be more open?

Or click the link to their website?

I talked with them at the wiredFest. sounds like this is good for san francisco(gloomy, but windy), but not practical for anywhere else. power output of one turbine is about equivalent to one solar panel on a clear day. so don't expect to power your house with one. looks like the best backup power alternative so far is a natural gas generator. the battery backup for the solar panels add another $3-8 k & need to be replaced in 3-5 years. most peopoe considering solar are unaware that the panels won't power your house during a blackout wuthoit battery backup.

sorry for the typos. i'm posting via my iphone walking back to work.

Guys, this is a *slight* modification of a design that was originally developed in 1924, and written about back in 1974 that you can MAKE YOURSELF for about $100. (maybe $200 today)

http://www.motherearthnews.com...Rotor.aspx

There is never anything new. But this "new" design is a bit prettier. (expensive?)

A 2 KW turbine isn't going to reduce my electric bill by half unless the only thing I have in my house is a blow-dryer or a dozen light bulbs.

Solar is stupid and will never be practical except in remote places. Ditto for wind except in the case of very large turbines.

Entire countries are supporting the "stupid" idea of solar and wind - perhaps you have a better idea Tom Ryan?

Also, it sounds like your household is extremely wasteful of energy. A 2.3kW solar array provides most of the power for my not-very-efficient home.

Just eyeballing this and some quick mental math tells me that this thing will be generating 100W max. 2KW? Physics says no!

Better than the eggbeaters that required a lot of wind speed to even get started, and smaller than 2 or 3 blade turbines that have a large swath and require the additional complexity of a rotating base to automatically point into the wind.

I have a 1.5 KW solar system on my house, and it's producing over half of the electricity we consume.

This turbine looks intriguing. I have an e-mail into Helix; maybe I'll get some answers on cost.

I have to admit: Between this, Humdinger and a few other companies, a lot of interesting stuff is coming down the pipe into wind power lately.

It's $6,500 for a 2KW medium-wind system and $8,500 for a 2KW low-wind system. That doesn't count installation or shipping. Got that from one of the company's fact sheets.

A hair dryer uses 1650 W -> (15 A * 110 V) = 1.6 KW.

Heating a whole house costs a lot more. To store enough energy to do anything takes massive batteries that have to be discarded every few years using heavy metals that then have to be discarded.

Entire countries are using wind because as I said, it is only practical for very large turbines.

Entire countries are using solar because of stupid government subsidies. Ditto for ethanol which is a huge waste of resources.

Coal, Oil, and nuclear are the answers, not the problems. We should get on our knees every night and pray they never run out.

Tim Ryan, aka Tom Ryan

TimTom, oil will never run out.. the fact is at one time in our ancient history of a planet there was no oil. But thanks (or no thanks) to the death of life, oil was created.

The point is oil at some point in our very near future will become too costly for the average American. Heck it's already becoming very costly to heat and power a home with the prices where they are, and they're still relatively cheap!

Anyway, soon enough you will find out, Tom Ryan, that you can't leave the hair dryer on all day.

Halving your electric bill doesn't require producing half of your power usage. Power is billed on a progressive scale, meaning that the more KWh you use, the more you pay per KWh. The top residential price bracket is more than 3x the bottom residential price bracket around here (I believe it's $0.36 or 0.37/KWh versus $0.11/KWh, with several stages in between).

Most home generation solutions are geared toward eliminating those spikes. If your home or business uses a lot of power, reducing your net power consumption by 50% will probably knock the bill down by 75-80%. My folks recently installed a 2.2KWh solar array, and while it only reduces their net consumption by about 40%, their bill will be reduced by 60-65%.

I say "will be" because, at least with PG&E, when you begin producing some power of your own, they shift you from a monthly to an annual or biannual billing program that averages your usage out over a longer period of time.

Forklift batteries can last 20 to 30 years, when properly cared for. I got a used one on E-Bay 5 years ago and it is still going strong. (3,460 pounds, 1 battery!)

It's always much easier to shoot down ideas than to give them a chance, but really... coal, oil, and nuclear?? Just look where they've gotten us. Me thinks TimTom might have a right-leaning agenda to promote here. Just a thought...

When I was 10 years old, they told us that the world would be out of oil by the year 2000 and that we were causing global cooling.

No doubt oil will run out but not in our lifetimes. There is enough oil in colorado to run the entire U.S. economy for 100 years or more, we just have to get it out.

My electricity costs 5.6 cents per kilo-watt hour because we burn the coal that God put on this planet for our use.

As far as the right-leaning agenda that TimTom has, do you really believe that the enviro-religion doesn't have an agenda to push?

It is also true that you cannot use the hairdryer all day, but have you ever tried to heat your house with a hair-dryer? It takes many many hair driers. Cooling is similarly energy intensive.

Large wind turbines that feed the grid are the most practical because they do not require batteries to store the energy. The enviro-non-left-leaning agenda people make us turn them off because they slice and dice the birdies. And the Kennedys won't let us build them off-shore because they may spoil their million-dollar views.

I don't have an agenda but I do live in the real world and I have a lot of kids. My home uses a lot of energy and I hope they find more and more of it in the ground until the utopian fantasies generate enough energy to replace it.

TimTom

I've got 1.2 kW of PV installed. It produces 90% of my electrical needs. Heating is wood. Cooking and water heating is propane.

I'd like a wind turbine to fill in that other little bit of missing green instead of relying on my diesel generator, but this puppy seems way too expensive.

It's some sheet metal attached to (basically) a car alternator. Should be a few hundred dollars, not a few thousand.

Are these people marketing a product to help the environment and make are "reasonable" profit, or are they marketing a product to rip off gullible buyers?

If it's supposed to look so good in an urban environment, I hope it comes in other colors.

I still need to see some real world numbers. The cost still seems too high for me to be feasible. It is creative companies like HelixWind that are paving the way for newer cheaper alternative energy technologies that I believe will be in great demand in the not to distant future due to the rising cost of oil and diminishing value of the US Dollar. I want to definitely get some alternative energy going to supplement or replace my homes energy usage. I have been considering making a few of my own custom windmills based on many of the plans that are available online. I have read many posts talking about systems people have created from off the shelf parts, reconditioned ForkLift batteries and a little ingenuity on their part. Just a thought.

Anyone out there have any success with their own custom system?

Solar power isn't "stupid". The sun just so happens to power every process on this planet. Just because right at this moment we don't know how to effectively harness it doesn't make it stupid. What's stupid is to continue to be petro-chemical addicted pigs that refuse to acknowledge that oil isn't flowing from some bottmless magical pit. Also we need to come to terms with the fact that other nations are industrializing thmeselves at a frightening rate, they want cars and all the pretty electric baubles and appliances that require oil, just like we have. So what's stupid is to sit here and make excuses for why we shouldn't pursue other means for energy. When VCRs and compters cost 3000-4000 bucks did that stop them from being produced, and dropping down in price until every household could have one. I guess atomic power was stupid too back in the 30s and 40s. You are aware that oil was considered worthless black goo until the after the 1910s.

See ->http://www.treehugger.com/file..._lev.php

The sun does power everything on the earth but it is a big, big, big earth. Ultimate efficiency of solar on a bright day is probably limited to 500 watts per square meter. Very diffuse and would require many many square meters to run a medium size home. Cloudy days require many batteries once again. There is also the question of the net energy used to make the bloody things. Some suggest that it takes more energy to make them than you ever get out of it. If they were really effective, they wouldn't need massive subsidies to get people interested. They have niche markets, deserts, remote locations, etc but solar energy is too diffuse to be practical. To imply that they are expensive because they are new ignores the fact that they are actually a very mature technology and are already producing near maximum effficiency with costs still high.

I never said not to pursue alternate technologies. I just think cramming stupid technologies down peoples throats because Al Gore says the sky is falling is stupid. I think wind power is probably a good thing to pursue but it is barely practical on a large scale and not practical at all on a small scall until electricity is very expensive.

TimTom

RE -> oil was considered worthless black goo until the after the 1910s.


I remember reading an article from around 1920 that said that although the new automible seemed like a good idea it wouldn't matter because most of the usable oil had already been pumped out of the ground and would soon run out!

The sky has been falling for a very long time. There is one thing you can say about pessimists and doom-sayers however, sooner or later they will be right.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/37322.pdf

btw, I also don't mind if people want to use solar. I do however object to government subsidies (read my money) being used to build other peoples solar power.

Then you will be for eliminating our subsidies for agrobusiness, Oil companies (they don't pay the royalties from our land), military industry and yada yada. subsidies for solar are good at this stage by jump starting the industry. Once at economies of scale and a mainstream product, then I'll support getting rid of the subsidies.

I'm not for any subsidies for anything, especially yadas. A bunch of bureaucrats in Washington picking winners and loosers with tax (my) money is silly. Let the market decide.

If you think solar or any other idea is a good one, then you (and others) should be willing to risk your own money without asking others to involuntarily donate their money at the point of a gun. I know I am living in lala land on this one and it will never happen, but subsidies at the expense of unwilling wage earners are inherently immoral.

TimTom

Brilliant - someone's finally gotten around to manufacturing a turbine that can be mounted on the sides of tall buildings - extremely windy areas that it isn't practical to stick a windmill-type of turbine out the side of.

The key part in the article there is "vertical winds".

No Data Sheets ? Make of this what you will

http://www.helixwind.com/en/factsheets.php

http://www.helixwind.com

If the performance stats are to be at all relied upon, it seems that the Helix 2 kw turbine would produce over half my daily power needs of around 5000 kwh per year ( 5 MWH per year ) or 13.6 kwh per day, on an average 10 mph / 16 kph wind speed.

http://www.helixwind.com/en/factsheets.php

Tom, I think it's fine if you don't want to invest in solar panels right now. If they aren't practical for you, then you shouldn't buy them. But please don't assume that because something doesn't work for you, it's "stupid." Solar happens to be a very practical solution for me -- even here in suburbia.

It sounds like your situation is much different from mine, and at this point, it might be more beneficial for you to focus on conservation rather than alternative energy. There's nothing wrong with that. But there's nothing wrong with doing what I'm doing, either. Let's not waste time judging each other, questioning each other's motives, or labeling each other's efforts "stupid" just because we don't understand them or don't think they'll work for our personal situations.

Oh, what a NerdFightery way to decrease WorldSuck. In the UK, wind turbines are DIScouraged because they are "unattractive and harm the scenery". Which is complete bull. But if this turbine is successful, that problem just wouldn't exist, so the stupid people will have nothing to complain about. It's also safe for birds, and costs less. Why oh why don't more people have these?
Thanks for this guys, it may have just saved my Physics project for school.

TimTom... If your opinion is so biased, then what were you doing here to begin with???

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And Its Free Look…
Energy Policy Act of 2005 (H.R. 6)

The Energy Policy Act of 2005 (EPAct 2005)was signed into law by President Bush on August 8, 2005. EPAct 2005 offers consumer and builder tax incentives for increasing the energy efficiency of new and existing homes through measures such as added insulation; energy-efficient windows, doors and roofs; and energy-efficient heating and cooling equipment. Incentives include the purchase and installation of energy-efficient appliances and products, renewable energy measures, construction of highly energy-efficient homes, and the purchase of certain fuel-efficient vehicles. Most of these policies remain in effect through 2007.

About Tax Credits
A tax credit is generally more valuable than an equivalent tax deduction because a tax credit reduces tax dollar-for-dollar, while a deduction only removes a percentage of the tax that is owed. Beginning in tax year 2006, consumers will be able to itemize purchases on their federal income tax form, which will lower the total amount of tax they owe the government. http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.u...redits.htm

Stories of coal, oil, and nuclear disappearing are just mythical creations of the liberal extremists. Our current administration and many other very respectable & successful people in the energy industry I do business with concur with me on the fact that natural coal, oil, and nuclear resources will be around for a very long time. Recent rise in energy costs are a mere blip/correction on the radar in the bigger picture.

Q. Will your sissy fan power Suburban?

Could you please send me more information on this? I need power specifications, installation, and cost. Please send this to me via internet.

Oil resources ARE tremendous. UNFORTUNATELY, extracting them costs money. There are reserves just waiting for oil to hit $150 a barrel, $200 a barrel, $300 a barrel. Then they will be financially feasible for oil companies to harvest and sell to us at a rate obviously much higher than what we pay now. It's simple economics. Don't kowtow to the altar of oil just because we're not exactly running out.

I have seen heating costs rise to the point where I am now sitting here wrapped up in a blanket against the 25-degree Michigan night because heating is simply out of grasp right now. We just can't afford the bill that rose almost over $100 a month in the last few years. No, not "rose to over $100", rose BY $100.

I don't know what kind of life you live, Tom Ryan. Maybe you live in a glorified cardboard box. but by your unfettered arrogance I can only surmise that you are not poor, like my family, and thus will never feel the pinch we are already feeling. You claim that all this is conjecture, well I am living the reality EVERY SINGLE DAY. Come out of your ivory tower.

As a renewable (and small wind) advocate I could not read this blog much further without adding my "two cents". Solar and small wind are fantastic technologies - when they are applied correctly. A 2kW wind turbine will not produce 2kW for you - that number is strictly a rating for comparison, which is still impossible to do without adequate wind data for your location and a power curve for the turbine that you may be considering. Electrical usage is measured in kWh and the ability of a turbine to produce electricity (kWh) for you will be entirely dependent upon the wind characteristics in your area. Let's not downplay these technologies that we are now working to bring to the forefront of power production. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. And remember - CONSERVATION and proper use of the energy that we have at hand is always vital.
Tom Ryan

if you guys haven't yet seen the videos on you tube about burning water, you need to check it out by far the greatest serendipitous find of the century. This retired engineer accidentally discovered that bombarding salt water with a radio frequency generator would break the ionic bond of the hydrogen to the oxygen and presto it it got hot enough to ignite due to the excitation of the molecules from the radio frequency generator. The holy grail of energy , cheap fuel for us all that can be easily made by anyone. Another guy has a car running on it already, 6 ounces gets him about a 100 miles, he has a spot on you tube also, the governments of the world should be all over this. And colleges all across america could easily reproduce this to heat their entire campus and run all their electrical, heat their water, you name it, think about it convert your home furnace from gas with fumes to burning hydrogen with no fumes, no flue needed, no deadly co2, time for us to tell opec to we dont need them anymore. Drive by the gas pumps and fill up at home, OH Life could be a dream.

For this to work it needs to be usable by the average consumer. Many people today are concerned about energy and would consider this if it was less expensive even if it didn't make fiscal sense. I think if we had a wind turbine sold like a air conditioner or a lamp that you would just have to plug in and even if it was very small people would buy it. I could just plug mine into the outlet i have for Christmas lights. If if was built to the legal max without requiting any inspections or hight approvals but had a expansion part to go on the top to increase its capability then some would add the top piece and wait to see if anyone complained. If they did they could just remove the top piece that would exceed the hight requirment. For many people the motivation is not just to save money but to help the environment. They would walk out their doors and feel like they were making a differnence. 40% of our fossil fuels are used to produce electricity. The more pressure we take off the fossil fuels will also work to reduce the price. Lets cut the demand, We save on our electric bill and our cost of fossil fuels goes down too as we have lower demand.

$6,500? If 1,000 people paid $6,500 for a full size wind turbine (or rather, six of them), they could have $6,500,000 worth of turbines, generating probably 50 to 100 times what the Helix generates. Notice on their website they go to great lengths to poo poo the concept of 'payback' - which basically means - "Pay us a fortune and waste your money on a token 'green' gesture". Wind turbine co-operatives are by far the most efficient use of money AND people's time. Just remember - any time you see a 'home' wind turbine, multiply the price by 1,000 and the output by 1,000, and see how much electricity a full size wind turbine could generate, owned by a co-operative...

Bob Wallace has this right on the button.
The metal is about $50 tops, absolute tops, the alternator is about $100. It's a waste of time to buy from somebody like this. Go to www.fieldlines.com and look at what so many people are doing - building their own immensely powerful wind turbines, for a fraction of the price of this piece of 'modern art'.

It's very simple - wind turbines are FAR more cost effective the bigger they get - commercial turbines produce far cheaper electricity than these tiny things - plus imagine the amount of time spent if 1,000 people have to have their Helix checked out once every year - compare that to the time taken to maintain a single commercial wind turbine - I doubt it requires 1,000 checks a year!

Never mind Helixwind's rubbish about payback being unimportant - ALL that matters is the cost per kilowatt hour. This isn't a charity...

according to wikipedia, there is an average of 7.2% loss of energy through transmission. So is large scale wind so grand. With KW vs KWh you have to consider time. if the solar panels is a 2 kw system then in the middle of north america you end up with about 10 kwhs for solar (assuming 5 hrs full sun). if you run your hair dryer for 10 min at 1500W then you have used only 0.250 KWh.

for solar or wind you have to consider these systems last for many years with solar panel gaurantees up to 25 or 30 yrs. do you think energy costs will rise over the next 30 yrs?

Dollar for dollar, it is best to reduce your consumption first. Those that doubt small scale renewable energy typically have not reduced their paower consumption to low enough rate to be replaced with solar or wind.

I agree that something that would plug in would be easier, but the electical building codes currently prevent this option partially because you need to disconnect from the grid if the power goes down. otherwise you risk injuring a worker repairing the power line.

www.oursunflowerhouse.com

looking for distributor

Wind power combined with solar power should cover at least 75% of the energy bills. Of course, there'd be no reason to wage oil wars. And this means the economy will plumit. So I guess nothing will change too soon.

Listen friends, burning oil and coal or any fossil fuel in this day and age is living like a caveman. Even if global warming isn't real who wants to breath all that junk fossil fuel produces. Solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, a careful dose of nuclear and HYDROGEN and we could create all the power we need and have clean air to breath. And send the Arabs back to their sand box with no money to spend.

I have to say this has made for interesting reading and TimTom's views have highlighted what us brits think of the stereo-typical american, i.e. we are not gonna run out, blah blah blah....Feed the corporate beast some more......It seems to me - we are today on the verge of total economic meltdown because of fat greedy corporations turning over the honest man for a quick profit, take a step back and at least start to think about a little bit of self sufficiency.

I agree we probably wont run out any time soon but just wait until your electricity costs 14-17 p/kwh (28-34 cents per kwh)then you will certainly start checking out the internet for small scale home generation. In the UK energy prices have risen for the last 6 years by several hundred % and dont seem to be slowing down at all, all this among continuing record profits for energy companies. Anything I can do to stop giving my hard earned to the greedy fat corporations the better, these people are leeches on the backside of humanity. I also agree with Allan ref Opec and the arabs, the sooner we stop the cash flow to the desert the better, if it wasnt for Oil these guys would be back in the third world, with no guns, bombs or funds to wage holy war on a global basis.

It really is time to wake up an smell the coffee.!!!!!!!!!

For all of those who don't see what the true costs of utilizing coal, nukes & oil. Ask yourself, do you let your children eat large predatory fish, ie Tuna, Swordfish, Cod, etc, etc = mercury -->coal. Yucca mtn & real cost of transporting, storing, safeguarding nukes see
--> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...9696.shtml
Poor air quality days have increased 167% in last 30 yrs here in Maine (end of continent tailpipe). Isn't it time us Americans (or the world) start thinking outside of our little sandbox and use our own creative juices to find a solution ... and not believe what the 'Corp' tells us.

I believe all those who down talk ideas that have a potentially positive effect on this planet and dont wish to give them a try dont have room to talk in the first place. You people are only thinking of yourself and the present and need to start thinking about future generations! We may have enough oil and resources for our current population but what about those who will be walking this earth in the future? Oil, coal, and nuclear power have been working fine for us, this is true, but look at the impact its had on the environment! Theres no safe way to dispose of nuclear waste without harmful effects of the surrounding and oil and coal emmisions are polluting the atmosphere and causeing illnesses. These problems will only be getting worse. We need to start thinking of alternative ideas. Ofcourse some of the ideas don't seem to be very efficent at this time but they can only improve. Reacting on the ideas now will allow for further expansion in a shorter time so we can start seeing results earlier.

Sure this windmill may not help out too much when it comes to saving money and in other cases it might be doing and excellent job, but its environmentally friendly and thats the idea we need to start taking in!

I'm all for alternative power. oil and coal are destroying the air we breath. and who cares if wind turbines are unattractive. nobody complaines about all the telephone polls that line every street in this country. Maybe they should put a wind turbine on top of every telephone poll. that will take care of our enviormental crisis, and lowere electric bills. any ways. the price is still to high for avearage homeowners like myself. everyone in the energy business is a price gouger.

I like what Pacwind in Torrance,CA is doing. Their VAWT's look impressive. I went to their facility and actuall got to see the different models they are releasing in September.

In my opinion the only way to go is green energy. All those retards that do not want to play along and want to believe anti-global warming propaganda should be exiled to mars. It is what earth will look like if we don't switch to green and they seem to want to live in a barren wasteland anyway.

I don't understand why people could be against green energy. COAL = POLLUTION, OIL = POLLUTION, SUNLIGHT != (not equal) POLLUTION.

80% of the population recycles in some way shape or form so its already widely accepted that we are destroying the planet. So why do some people think they need to recycle when they don't believe in the environment being destroyed.

Its fact that over time the quantity of fresh water available has been drastically reduced. Some of the largest lakes in Africa have practically vanished over the last 30 years.

I dare someone to give me some verifiable evidence that global warming doesn't exist. (NOT POSSIBLE)

When you take a handful of dirt and throw it in the air how hard is it to stand in it and breath. Well the average person releases ~ 9 tons of CO2 each year. Yes it is spread to a larger area but eventually the levels of CO2 will be past the safe level. (Some scientists say we are past it others say we are within a single digit % of passing it.

The US has gone from being one of the top countries in the world to the most ignorant, arrogant, uneducated, bunch of idiots in the civilized world. The greatness that once was America is no more.

A few years ago, I was in the same frame of mind as Tom. Until I saw with my own eyes what the coal companies are doing to the beautiful mountains. Complete mountains are being destroyed for the extraction of coal by strip mines. The the so-called "revitalization" that happens after the coal company has made all the profit they can, nowhere does any justice to what was once there to begin with.
The same things happen with oil fields but in a differet way. Oil isn't the only thing that come out of the ground when they drill. What they can't use goes back onto the ground and left there to seep back into the soil. There are places in Alaska where the oil fields have destroyed the lanscape and have driven out the wildlife.

There is also the human cost to consider. How many people have to die because we want oil and coal. Mine collapses, war, terrorism. If the terrorists didn't have the oil money there wouldn't have been a 9/11.

It's all been about the money. It's time that we start to utilize alternative sources even if they aren't always the most "cost effective." If we alway thought about cost effectiveness, none of us would be driving SUVs or trucks as our daily means of transportation and busses would always be full.

We also wouldn't buy coffee from Starbucks.

This is WAY late, but...

The statement that Colorado has enough oil to supply the US for 100 years isn't near accurate.

a) Colorado only produces natural gas (negligible oil)
b) the US uses 20million bbl of oil/day

20mil x 365 days x 100 years = 730,000,000,000

If Colorado had oil, it wouldn't be 730billion barrels.

There's a common theory that before humans started producing oil, there were 3 trillion barrels of oil in the earth. Up until today, we've produced and used just over 1 trillion. That trillion is the "low hanging fruit" trillion, so to speak.

The 100-year Colorado idea mentioned, can't exist in this commonly accepted scenario.

Also, logic says it can't

but I am not saying we have infinite oil or should. Alternative fuels are the way to a sustainable future, population, and planet. Even if "God put coal for us to use", I'm sure he didn't want us breathing the mercury and lead vapor that comes out of the exhaust. I don't want that stuff in the air either.

Alternative fuels aren't really ment to be free, so saving money isn't the issue, it's really about keeping energy at a sustainable cost and to prevent us from filthing up the air and planet. SUper expensive alternative energies won't be purchased by anyone but early adopters though, just like the aformentioned $4000 VCR.

From wikipedia, on watts...or your local high school physics book.
Confusion of watts and watt-hours

Power and energy are frequently confused in the general media. Power is the rate at which energy is used. A watt is one joule of energy per second. For example, if a 100 watt light bulb is turned on for one hour, the energy used is 100 watt-hours or 0.1 kilowatt-hour, or 360,000 joules. This same quantity of energy would light a 40 watt bulb for 2.5 hours. A power station would be rated in watts, but its annual energy sales would be in watt-hours (or kilowatt-hours or megawatt-hours). A kilowatt-hour is the amount of energy equivalent to a steady power of 1 kilowatt running for 1 hour:

(1 kW·h)(1000 W/kW)(3600 s/h) = 3,600,000 W·s = 3,600,000 J = 3.6 MJ.

wow!!!what a inovative mind to invent such a machine.look alike star war machine....keep up the work..inventor.

MY BILL RUN $250.00 TO $450.00 A MONTH HELP!!!!

I agree we have plenty of fossil fuels. However the problem is extracting them without leaving our economy vulnerable to hostile countries. National security and economic stability are the reason to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

I disagree that alternative energy sources will solve global warming. Global warming exists. It has occured in the past when mankinds energy footprint was much smaller. Temperatures have been higher in the past (Climate optimum AD 1200-AD 1600). The natural phenomena that caused global warming in the past are at work now. (i.e. volcanic activity on the ocean floors warming our oceans, a weakening magnetic shield caused by shifting magnetic fields allowing solar winds to blow away part of the upper atmosphere, increased UV radiation from sun spot activity at a time our ozone layer is weakened ect.) Mankind cannot stop global warming anymore than King Canute could stop the tide from rising. It is a recurring cycle.

I disagree that we can conserve our way to energy independence. Only an elitist would suggest such a thing. Of course elitists expect the sacrifices to be made by the great unwashed and never them. I personally want everyone to have a higher standard of living and a higher standard of living is dependent on abundant cheap energy.

Solar panels and wind generators are part but not all of the answer. If we broadened the power grid by making every house with a roof a power generating unit we would be less vulnerable to terrorist acts. Each household would generate part of their energy needs making themselves and the our country more energy self sufficient. If our government was serious about national security it would allow tax credits for household wind turbines and solar generators that fully cover the cost of installation. Current models are inefficient and impractical. The government should provide incentives for manufacturers to develop efficient cost effective models easily adaptable to home use.

I support increased drilling also. Until our vehicle fleet converts to hydrogen fuel cells we will still need gas and diesel. Ethanol was a mistake. It has only served to increase food prices without substantially reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

I wouldn't call myself an environmentalist, but I do care about the world we live in. I would disagree with the statement that solar and wind generation is "stupid". I do agree however that the government should not intervene by placing subsidies on things. I too don't want my tax dollars promoting businesses. If you have a good product, it will sell. If you don't, it won't. Let the market decide who the winners and losers are.

I am looking into getting solar panels on my roof and wind turbines, although obtrusive, could be a viable option to help me become energy independent.

I have worked in the nuclear energy business for the government and I now work with a company producing geothermal plants in the western states. I am under the belief that all power generation has the potential to be good. We shouldn’t shoot down the construction of new coal plants because we are afraid of what it might do to the environment. America is coal rich and new plants are incredibly "green" considering what they are burning. Nuclear is the most efficient form of energy and we have TONS of nuclear fuel stored in the deserts of Idaho ready for use. Wind and solar on a grand scale doesn’t seem too feasible yet. It isn’t going to power America any time soon as T. Boone Pickens would lead us to believe. As with geothermal, they are supplementary energy sources. We need to explore all our options and as long as we can produce energy in a responsible way, we should pursue it. And as always, the government should stay out of the way.

Smaller government leads to better economies and a happier people.

OMG. I just surfed the internet for solar panels and wind turbines. My home uses approx. 2000 kwhs electricity a MONTH. A roof mounted Vertical Wind Turbine runs about $5000 plus installation and only generates 200 kwhs per YEAR in Class 2 wind conditions (Mid-Atlantic). I would have to mount 3,600 of them on my roof to generate enough to serve my daily electricity needs. Solar panel installation quoted at $100,000 would never pay for itself and would never meet my current daily electricity needs.

So until the technology (and price) improves for wind and solar generation it looks like I'll be supporting more drilling, more coal power plants and more nuclear power plants. Until we can generate more electricity I wouldn't buy that electric car.

Wind mills and solar panels are for the most part a silly idea to produce electricty, compared to nuclear, oil, coal, gas and hydro-powerplants.
Internal combustion engines will be replaced in the next few years by battery powered and hybrid electric vehicles. When that happens the demand for gasoline will be a fraction of what it is now.
The quicker that happens the better, but I doubt it will happen unless gasoline goes to $8.00- $10.00 per gallon, thats when people will get serious about the "fuel crisis".
The truth is the gasoline IC engine is the most energy inefficient way to transport ourselves from point A to point B.
If we were were driving electric cars the energy would be coming from highly effecient power generating plants, not gasoline engines that send unburned fuel, CO2, carbonmonoxide, nitrous oxide and who knows what else into the atmosphere.
I am hoping gas will go to $10.00 per gallon very soon, as I am already invested in companies that will benefit from the conversion to electric and hybrid vehicles.

Oops. My math is shakey. It would take 120 wind turbines at $5000 each to generate my monthly electricity needs

take a look at www.allsmallwindturbines.com for an overview of all the small wind turbines.

What is the best negotiable price of Helix Model S322 and S594. Please suggest me. We are looking for a local consultant or negotiator who can talk with siimilar kind companies to export wind products

Please email me i have the anwsers your looking for, most likley.
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WindEnergy7.com now has customer/dealers in almost 50 different counties across the US. If you are interested in home wind power, have a look at those links here on PickensPlan. This guy knows his stuff, has really durable systems with stainless steel parts.
http://push.pickensplan.com/profile/WindEnergy7

I recently went to the Home Show in Harrisburg, PA and I saw one of these. Looks cool, and I was thinking about buying one . . . until I heard the price. $20,000!!!

http://www.english-latin.com

Why bother with wind turbines when we have nuclear power?

These re basically the jibs on a sailboat. as a sailor, i would find it quite easy to devise an auto method to dump wind in too high a breeze. As an Architect also this concept definitely intrigues me, since they could be built from sail material, are quite aesthetic, do not require a rotating shaft as conventional rotor windmills do, which alwys creates probs with the wire running down the shaft. From one castoff sail I could create 20 of these, and probably find the saail in a dumpster at a marina.

Conserve, conserve conserve, I know the xer's think they can use 10000 kw per month and still be "green", but that is outdated thinking. The other outdated thinking is that the generation of electricity through a central grid is efficient. We need to start thinking on a local scale. Every 2kw I can generate myself helps. Even if it only runs my electronic equipment, for example.

Wow! I am amazed by the arrogance the right-wing lunatics posting on this site have displayed. Their arguments are based solely on their desire to use whatever they want, however much they want, and who cares about the consequences to others.

The problem with coal, oil and nuclear isn't necessarily availability—although several writers have posted the problems with trying to extract them. The problem, for coal and nuclear in particular, is that they are not safe.

Have we forgotten Three-Mile Island? What about Chernobyl? They said nuclear was safe then, too. We're still reading articles about the fallout—pun intended—from Chernobyl. People are still coping with the permanent health problems caused by the fallout at Chernobyl. It's easy to say it's safer now, but there's no such thing as perfection, and even one nuclear accident is too much for what little we gain in return. (Yes, little—our unchecked energy consumption matters little compared to the value of human life.) It's too great a price to pay so these self-centered wingnuts can consume as much as they want.

There's simply no reason to take the risks involved in extracting these resources when renewable resources do exist, even if we have to work to find more efficient ways to harness them. Yeah, that takes subsidies. And if the right-wing nut who doesn't want HIS money to subsidize renewable resources thinks those of us who do should pay for it out of our own pockets, I say OK. And he can foot the bill for the Iraq War out of his own pocket. And when we do run out of oil, and he hasn't given a cent toward alternative energy sources, he can live in the dark (much like he does now).

The politics of oil—and, closer to home, natural gas and coal—are too complicated to think the argument is solely about how much exists. That's a gross oversimplification, coming from what is obviously a simple mind—one who cares only about himself.

Does anybody remember John D. Rockefeller—you know, the oil baron? Know how he got rich? He found an ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCE. The oil we were using in the 1800s, whale oil, was in danger of running out when we ran out of whales—which was dangerously close. It's fairly widely accepted that when Rockefeller found a cheaper way to produce kerosene (as a forerunner to the oil we use today), whales were saved from extinction.

So whether we're about to run out of oil and coal or if it's in the distant future, it's definitely an eventuality—tied, of course, to the world's rate of consumption. The amounts of those resources are undeniably finite, no matter how you slice it, so we would be fools not to look at alternative energy sources.

As for people's agendas, of course the left—like the right—has an agenda. All people do. But an agenda that ignores the hard lessons we've learned about nuclear, coal and oil (like the one we're learning right now about oil, thanks to a war that's been expensive in terms of money, human life and a growing disdain for our country abroad), that's an agenda based on ignorance and arrogance. The bottom line is that there is no good reason to put our heads in the sand and pursue only these resources while turning a blind eye to alternatives. An agenda that seeks to explore alternatives—and exploration always rings up debt before it pays off in returns—is just that, an exploration of alternatives. It's a dialogue, whereas the wingnut's view is a proclamation.

Nobody has said to abandon coal and oil all together (although there are legitimate arguments for eschewing or severely limiting use of nuclear power). The idea is to wean ourselves off of these resources. The time is now to pursue the alternative energy sources, and just because they aren't cost-effective (enough) in some people's eyes doesn't mean we should abandon efforts to better the technology.

Holy cow! I can't believe there are still people in the world who think like these nutjobs. I really hate to use pejoratives like that, but they really invite it. Their speech is inflammatory and, again, totally self-centered.

I am very excited to see what the future of energy brings. Many people think that this is an option, but soon this will be necessary, when oil supplies have depleted. Why wait until then, start sooner!

This is an interesting piece of turbine news. ARE makes HAWT (horizontal axis wind turbines) and Helix makes VAWT (vertical axis wind turbines). I think that since the Vertical turbines that Helix makes don't produce very well, they are probably buying ARE. Because ARE makes horizontal axis turbines that are a more proven design to take to market. But neither has the patented rooftop mounting that was invented by WindEnergy7. So their ARE and Helix systems will be prone to turbine vibration that will cause noise and structural vibration. Maybe they will buy WindEnergy7 next because without that patented roof mounting technology nobody can compete easily with WindEnergy7 for the home wind turbine market in the US. I think WindEnergy7 has installed base all across the US now and I read has been exporting to other countries already. I think all these small wind turbines are really neat, we are seeing the future of residential energy.

I read about this over on inhabitant.com, a guy posts "I spoke to the owner and she showed me their loggs over the past 2 weeks (it just got hooked up). The highest day was 19 kwh with an average of 10-11! That’s maybe 4,000 kwh/year based on those numbers and these are windy Spring numbers so we’re talking probably something closer to 3,000 kwh/yr! That BLOWS for a $30k, 5 kw rated machine! Needless to say I was VERY unimpressed and would NEVER but one of these based on what I saw today."

We conserve electricity by nixing air conditioning. And I guess we must be right wing "nut jobs" because we don't believe in letting the Chinese dip into all our off shore oil while we stay aloof. There have been several new discoveries of oil over the past few years and the world has plenty of it.

It's obvious that wind and sun systems as presently designed are not going to fill the oil gap. I suggest to the environmental nazis that they kneel down and pray for a breakthrough there. But why no discussion of geothermal technology? You can even do it yourself, isn't ugly, and as far as I know, doesn't require expensive maintenance and lasts much longer.

My husband bought shares of Helix and I hope enough environmentalist buy these systems so my husband can turn a profit.

Entire countries are using wind because as I said, it is only practical for very large turbines.

Once the initial investment of green technology becomes less expensive, it will become much more practical for homeowners to consider green energy alternatives such as the Helix Wind. Until then, only early-adopters will probably invest in such technology for their homes.

I see on windgenerator that costs less than 150 if one makes it themselves. We also see on that same site.. make your own solar panels.. less than 100 apiece. I once built heating solar for a farmhouse with help of my x-father-in-law. I got some of the design from a book.. I paid 1200 for materials.. it would heat the home on a cloudy day! I actually had to add a heat exchanger to divert extra heat to an extra water tank for hot water. It was 121 sq. ft. but I painted a roof white to reflect more sun in winter.. It was 12 feet above the terrain. Virgil