250-Mile Range, 5-Minute Recharge EV Ready in '09

cityzenn

With all the negative reports surrounding the endless production delays at Zap, the electric car fraternity is in severe need of some reasons to be cheerful. Well, it seems that Canadian based EV start-up Zenn Cars might just provide a welcome pick me up. The Toronto outfit has just announced that they plan to release the cityZENN, a low cost, quick charge EV for urban use in fall 2009.

According to the Zenn Cars website, the cityZENN is planned to be “a fully certified, highway capable vehicle with a top speed of 80MPH and a range of 250 Miles. Powered by EEStor, the cityZENN will be rechargeable in less than five minutes, feature operating costs 1/10th of a typical internal combustion engine vehicle, and be 100% emission free.”

It seems that a lot hinges on the production of a new solid-state electrical energy storage unit by secretive ultra-capacitor firm EEStor. The company, partly backed by Zenn, claims the new technology will be longer lasting, lighter, more powerful, and environmentally-friendly than current battery technologies. Apparently EEStor has committed to full commercialization in 2008 and the first production line will be used to supply Zenn. Let’s just hope it doesn’t prove to be a case of ‘Zap revisited.’

Source:- The Red Ferret

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five minutes charge is a big exaggeratio
written by Andy, April 10, 2008

The 'five-minute' charge time claim is optimistic. Presuming prius-like power per mile usage, we are talking about roughly 6 gallons of gas worth of electricity. That's 100 kilowatt-hours, or running 100 hair-dryers for an hour (as a visual aid).
Pushing it into a battery in five minutes means 1.2 megawatts of power flow. Even using a 220V circuit, it's in the range of 6000 amps. To put it in context, most houses run 200 amp max circuits (and never hit that peak).
Personally I have doubts.

Re: five minutes charge is a big exagger
written by grr, April 10, 2008

Nobody is claiming that you will be able to recharge out of your house in 5 minutes. The idea is that if you want a slow charge (i.e. overnight), you do it at home. If you are on the road, and need a "fillup", you go to a service station which has the required amps.
More likely than not, they will have the same set of capacitors underground that will constantly be filling up. When you pull in, it will fast charge your car (and no doubt the cord will be BIG).

-1

Sigh
written by Jeremy, April 10, 2008

More vaporware, I bet.

Title misleading, '09 refers to 2109, no
written by Papa Hotel, April 10, 2008

So we're trusting that Zenn and EEStor are both completely on schedule? HAHAHAAHAHAHAA!

Did you see Zenn's latest press release? After this car, they will be offering a Star Trek style transporter for model year 2011. :)

5 minutes is wrong
written by EV, April 11, 2008

Even reading the website, they claim it will take 4 hours to charge to 80% capacity.
Goto, learn::The Zenn::Myths Debunked::Myth #3

Unfortunately, it is limited to 25mph. (same page)

Oh, and working on the 6000 amp figure from above, the cord would have to be almost a foot thick to keep from melting.

Not limited to 25 mph
written by Noah, April 11, 2008

To "EV": the specs you are reading are for Zenn's current model, which is a low speed NEV. The highway speed version is not yet in production, and is not listed on the Zenn site.

As for whether or not the EEStor ultracap is vaporware, I still have some doubts about it, but the companies that have chosen to invest in EEStor are impressive. I think they must be on to something. I hope they can live up to their claims, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Some calculations. Math works, not stup
written by Andrew, April 11, 2008

Assuming you can use 220V. Also, assuming one EEStor battery is used (52KW*HR):

220V*Xamps*(60seconds/min)*5min = 52KW*60min. Solving for amps you get 47.27Amps needed for a 5 minute charge. VERY POSSIBLE with a EESTOR storage system at a "gas station". I have a feeling that this car is going to be late, but I think it will happen. One problem with the car. It looks really gay! Why do they have to use a french car? Why not use a G35 chassis and turn that into a green ass-kicking machine.

It's not a battery.
written by Kevin, April 11, 2008

"electrical energy storage unit by secretive ultra-capacitor firm" It's a capacitor, which means you don't need to use energy to force a chemical reaction to reverse itself like you do in a battery. Therefore you need much less energy to recharge it, which increases recharge times. Please READ before you start screaming and yelling hoax.

...
written by EV, April 12, 2008

Kevin, all our calculations are assuming 100% efficiency. A capacitor can still not hold more energy than supplied to it. If you want to store 10kwh in a capacitor and charge it in 10 minutes you will need a 60kw line. The laws of physics don't change. Further, lithium ion batteries are roughly 99% efficient when properly charged. These capacitors aren't going to beat that by much, their only advantage is you can charge them faster without decreasing their life span or capacity.

Perhaps YOU should learn some simple physics before saying were are wrong.

220V*Xamps*(60seconds/min)*5min = 52KW*60min. Solving for amps you get 47.27Amps needed for a 5 minute charge.

You made a mistake. The equation is

220V*Xamps*5min = 52KW*60min

which comes out to 2836 amps. The (60 second/min) factor upsets the equation as the other side is in minutes, not seconds.

The human factor
written by James Love, April 12, 2008

Hey, if the car is cheap, safe, and gets me to work and back, I'll buy one. Yes, the design is ugly, but then so it paying $1.25/litre at the pumps.

What is the weight for the capacitor? Are they feasible for a motorcycle if you swap out the engine and go to a rear wheel drive?

...
written by jesse, April 13, 2008

if you take the fuel motor out of any hybrid and replace it with an electric motor,add electronic upgrades , the vehicle becomes regenerative. add solar panels and wheel hub generators then you have a guaranteed power source. the same applies to electric vehicles,add generator source,so on. This information is free to all.

...
written by Chris, April 29, 2008

Andrew - good point.

Why can't they make an electric car that looks cool?

Why won't they?

Re: 5 minutes is wrong
written by Ricky, June 03, 2008

The cord would need to be that big assuming they use regular copper wires. If they used a different, more efficient conductor they could shrink it considerably.

ZAP!!!
written by chris, June 03, 2008

Someone will get zapped to death, and that will be all she wrote..

EEStor recap
written by Anil, June 12, 2008

Great article on ZENN. The car does look a little dinky. I would buy one though just to play with it. What is the price of them?

I also saw a good recap on the ZENN / EEStor saga here: www.ultracapacitors.org/ultrac...estor.html

Thanks,
Anil

ZENN ZENN away!!
written by al, July 31, 2008

Called dealership in Houston and they run $17,435 and will only go 64 miles on a charge without using any of the accessories. Just using the air condition reduces it mileage to 35 miles. For that price, I don't think so.

Zenn's are great
written by rick, September 11, 2008

Al- the Zenn is a bit less cost than Miles, bit more than GEM or Zap, and gives great value- once you own it, driving it is almost free- i really mean free. Street legal on virtually all city streets except freeways and their frontage roads-- so open your mind, relax, get yourself a high quality NEV and enjoy the nearly free ride.

Capacitor not battery
written by Benjamin, October 01, 2008

Its a capacitor. Not a battery. Totally different when charging. TVs have huge capacitors with the energy of large batteries that power up as soon as you turn them on. Totally different. 5 minutes is realistic from a capacitor in a 220v outlet multiply by two for 110.

Big oil will stop this
written by Jack, October 15, 2008

ZENN is up against a monster called big oil. Good luck guys you will need it. Don't sell us out!!!!

...
written by Starflower, December 01, 2008

It's real, it's happening and it's super. I can't wait to get one of these puppies.
Way to go Canada! :-*

...
written by online games, April 10, 2009

As for whether or not the EEStor ultracap is vaporware, I still have some doubts about it, but the companies that have chosen to invest in EEStor are impressive. I think they must be on to something. I hope they can live up to their claims, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Bugs me
written by gordon, June 29, 2009

I would just like to buy the components and sub frame, if it has one. I would sick a 1950s VW bug body on it. Now that would sell for probably twice what it would take to build.

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In the future
written by Ray-ray, August 19, 2009

Yeah the options out there are lame. I'm doing the same thing that other guy is with the waste vegatable oil. Its a lot of work but I've only had to pull into a gas station three times this year. Planet Green was talking about the day our cars will feed excess stored energy into our houses. Now thats a great concept!