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I get emails pretty regularly from people asking which car, from my perspective, is the greenest. If you're one of the thousands of people wandering around the Internet, convinced that there's got to be a greener option for you than your current car, then I've got some good and bad news for you.
The good news is that, no matter what kind of car you're looking for, there's a green version out there. The bad news is, it might not be 100% available just now...in fact, you're almost certainly going to have to wait.
There is simply no new technology that, in my opinion, is worth investing in. Even if you don't have a hybrid, you will save so much more gas with the next generation plug-ins and full-electrics that it really isn't worth upgrading now. So, hold onto that junker this Earth Day. Take her in, get her a tune up, and bide your time. Two years from now, it'll be easy pickens from the green car tree. Here's a taste of what's on the horizon.
ZENN, a little Canadian electric vehicle company, is planning on selling its first highway capable car in 2009...with plans to scale up production in 2010. The car will have a range of 250 miles and a top speed of 80 mph.
We'll also have EVs from mainstream companies. Mitsubishi's iMiev is already on sale in Japan, but they've promised to bring the two-seater all-electric vehicle to Europe and the U.S. by 2010.
Nissan has also promised to be selling a full EV in the U.S. and Europe by 2010. Though, we haven't seen a final design, it's likely to be based on the sporty two-seater Mixim concept.
The 2010 Prius: Finally upgrading from nickel to lithium, the Prius's battery will soon be both greener, and much more powerful. Add to that a plug-in option and the Prius could be in the 80 mpg range. Unfortunately, this might have you waiting till 2011...as they're not sure if it'll be a production level car until after a year of testing. We're still waiting for specifics on the third generation Prius, but it's right on the horizons, and there have even been mumblings of triple digit fuel economy.
And if you really want an alternative vehicle, MDI's compressed air powered car is scheduled to go on sale (with a top speed of 95 mph, and emissions of pure air) sometime in 2010. Just imagine being the first person on your block with one of those babies!
GM will also be ready with the a plug-in hybrid version of it's Saturn Vue SUV. For the EcoGeek who needs space for the kids, this will be the first truly green SUV on the road.
And, of course, the holy grain of near-term green cars should be hitting dealerships at the end of 2010. The Chevy Volt will be the world's first large-scale production run of a range-extended electric vehicle. The car will go 40 miles without ever burning a drop of fuel, but you won't sacrifice any of the space, performance, or range that we've come to expect from gasoline vehicles.
So, I hope you'll take the chance this Earth day to treat your old car like she's new. Give it her the love she deserves...just don't tell her that you're biding your time, and saving your dollars till 2010, when real green alternatives will be in dealer lots.
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written by Virgil, April 18, 2008
Why wait until 2010?
-Bikes are available today (have been for about a hundred years)
-Better public transport is available today (if only politicians get their asses in gear)
-Cares that get 40MPG are available today (but they don't go very fast and cost a lot)
I will be VERY VERY surprised if any ONE of the above electric vehicles actually hits the market by 2010 in volumes that matter. Actually I'd be willing to bet money on it... not one of the above vehicles, specced' as described, will account for even 1% of car sales by 2012.
-Bikes are available today (have been for about a hundred years)
-Better public transport is available today (if only politicians get their asses in gear)
-Cares that get 40MPG are available today (but they don't go very fast and cost a lot)
I will be VERY VERY surprised if any ONE of the above electric vehicles actually hits the market by 2010 in volumes that matter. Actually I'd be willing to bet money on it... not one of the above vehicles, specced' as described, will account for even 1% of car sales by 2012.
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written by Leo, April 18, 2008
Great breakdown of what is coming in the near future. Thanks for that.
I've thought of getting rid of my gas powered car but would rather wait for something that is really worth it. I would rather just keep my car in good condition, get the relatively good gas mileage that it has, and hold out for a few years. I live in the most urban part of town that you can get in the middle of this sprawl covered city so I'm not totally reliant on the thing. Besides if I sold it now, someone else will be driving it and that is the same effect whatever I am driving that replaced it.
I've thought of getting rid of my gas powered car but would rather wait for something that is really worth it. I would rather just keep my car in good condition, get the relatively good gas mileage that it has, and hold out for a few years. I live in the most urban part of town that you can get in the middle of this sprawl covered city so I'm not totally reliant on the thing. Besides if I sold it now, someone else will be driving it and that is the same effect whatever I am driving that replaced it.
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written by Ken Grubb, April 18, 2008
If you can't wait, one could buy a full hybrid today, new or used, and look into one of the aftermarket companies doing PHEV conversions. Prius and Escape are the most common conversions.
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written by jake3988, April 18, 2008
What about ZAP's ZAP-X? Or Spark's EV's?
Still, electric cars emit TWICE the carbon emissions than do regular cars.
If you get your electricity from coal, PLEASE don't switch.
(If you want me to do the calculations I will)
Still, electric cars emit TWICE the carbon emissions than do regular cars.
If you get your electricity from coal, PLEASE don't switch.
(If you want me to do the calculations I will)
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written by Applewoodcourt, April 18, 2008
Zenn's stock is up considerably in the last week - easily over 25% on good volume. I suspect that there is something going on - perhaps a positive announcement is coming soon?
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written by KZ, April 18, 2008
Greg, you're missing a ton of electric motorcycles that are both a LOT less expensive and possibly better on specs. Electric Motorsports is selling theirs now for $8k, and the same goes for Zerocycles who is about to release their road version. $8k is a heck of a lot less money than $12k.
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written by GoSolar, April 18, 2008
My 2007 VW Jetta TDI using homebrew biodiesel from waste fryer oil (and an occasional fillup at a biodiesel station)gets me 52 highway, and about 35-45 in city. Its got such great low-end torc that I sometimes lead-foot it in town. Its a solid comfortable car with all the creature comforts from heated leather seats to 6-CD stereo, not some hopped up golf cart!
I'm not burning imported palm oil from rain forests, and I'm not taking food crops out of production. Seems to me to be a pretty good solution right now!
I'm not burning imported palm oil from rain forests, and I'm not taking food crops out of production. Seems to me to be a pretty good solution right now!
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written by Greg Hoke, April 18, 2008
Thanks for suggestions about ebikes, KZ! I'll add them to my list! That's why I come here, after all - for inspiration and knowledge about new possibilities.
Applewoodcourt - Zenn's stock is probably up because they invested $2.5 million in EESTOR. The hope is that EESTOR's capacitor can maintain huge voltage between the plates due to a new dielectric material. Stored energy in a capacitor is 1/2 CV^2, so this could be revolutionary.
There is a good article on Wikipedia and a good discussion thread here:
http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/20090/
Applewoodcourt - Zenn's stock is probably up because they invested $2.5 million in EESTOR. The hope is that EESTOR's capacitor can maintain huge voltage between the plates due to a new dielectric material. Stored energy in a capacitor is 1/2 CV^2, so this could be revolutionary.
There is a good article on Wikipedia and a good discussion thread here:
http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/20090/
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written by Wolfgang, April 18, 2008
@jake3988:
"If you want me to do the calculations I will"
Yes, please, I'm very curious how you get these results!
Thanks in advance!!
And while you are showing us your calculations, please also show us where Dr. Gary Kendall went wrong - in your opinion!
You can find his report "PLUGGED IN - THE END OF THE OIL AGE" at http://www.panda.org/news_fact...sID=129321
These are the numbers from his report, and I don't see where BEVs emit TWICE as much as gas/diesel cars.
CO2 intensity of motive energy (lower = better)
[gCO2/kWh]
Gasoline 1,619
Diesel 1,300
US BEV
California 457
Indiana 1,567
US average 1,037
EU BEV
Austria 370
Greece 1,306
EU average 619
"If you want me to do the calculations I will"
Yes, please, I'm very curious how you get these results!
Thanks in advance!!
And while you are showing us your calculations, please also show us where Dr. Gary Kendall went wrong - in your opinion!
You can find his report "PLUGGED IN - THE END OF THE OIL AGE" at http://www.panda.org/news_fact...sID=129321
These are the numbers from his report, and I don't see where BEVs emit TWICE as much as gas/diesel cars.
CO2 intensity of motive energy (lower = better)
[gCO2/kWh]
Gasoline 1,619
Diesel 1,300
US BEV
California 457
Indiana 1,567
US average 1,037
EU BEV
Austria 370
Greece 1,306
EU average 619
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written by jeff, April 18, 2008
IMHO "green" is a poor choice of words to apply to cars. No car is good for the environment but some are less bad.
What would be even less bad than any of the options discussed so far would be to convert a car that's already been manufactured (requiring no additional extraction, pollution, energy or other environmental harm) and convert it to an EV.
OK, so the motor and battery pack will require all those bad things but far less than a whole new car.
Conversions are moving out of enthusiasts garages and into the commercial market. I know of a shop in LA that will do the work (I'd have to look it up but I think they're called Left Coast Electric) and several cities have a sufficiently established EV communities that one could get a quality job done.
It just seems to me that writing off existing ICE equipped cars as sunk environmental costs is about the least "green" thing we could do now.
What would be even less bad than any of the options discussed so far would be to convert a car that's already been manufactured (requiring no additional extraction, pollution, energy or other environmental harm) and convert it to an EV.
OK, so the motor and battery pack will require all those bad things but far less than a whole new car.
Conversions are moving out of enthusiasts garages and into the commercial market. I know of a shop in LA that will do the work (I'd have to look it up but I think they're called Left Coast Electric) and several cities have a sufficiently established EV communities that one could get a quality job done.
It just seems to me that writing off existing ICE equipped cars as sunk environmental costs is about the least "green" thing we could do now.
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written by BBM, April 18, 2008
The Volt sounds like the best bet to me, but Zenn could be a dark horse.
I agree that none of those vehicles will be obtainable in numbers by 2010. So I'd go with a Camry/Escape/Civic hybrid and trade it in 3-4 years from now for something better.
As far as biodiesel from waste oil, that's a nice way to go. But since it is not scalable/universalizable, it can't really be considered a solution for the country or world (unless there is an algal biodiesel breakthrough).
It is also important that the transportation sector is responsible for only about 1/3 of CO2 emissions, and personal cars are only about 1/3rd of that (in the USA). So cars are really only about 10-15% of CO2 emissions.
It is therefore important to consider other ways to reduce CO2 footprints as well (eg eat locally produced foods, insulate your house, use less hot water, live closer to work, etc).
Spending $35,000 plus on a Prius and a PHEV conversion (basically a $17,000 premium over a Honda Civic with very good mileage) might make less sense (in terms of CO2 emissions) than spending that money on less sexy options like home insulation, solar hot water, and solar PV.
I agree that none of those vehicles will be obtainable in numbers by 2010. So I'd go with a Camry/Escape/Civic hybrid and trade it in 3-4 years from now for something better.
As far as biodiesel from waste oil, that's a nice way to go. But since it is not scalable/universalizable, it can't really be considered a solution for the country or world (unless there is an algal biodiesel breakthrough).
It is also important that the transportation sector is responsible for only about 1/3 of CO2 emissions, and personal cars are only about 1/3rd of that (in the USA). So cars are really only about 10-15% of CO2 emissions.
It is therefore important to consider other ways to reduce CO2 footprints as well (eg eat locally produced foods, insulate your house, use less hot water, live closer to work, etc).
Spending $35,000 plus on a Prius and a PHEV conversion (basically a $17,000 premium over a Honda Civic with very good mileage) might make less sense (in terms of CO2 emissions) than spending that money on less sexy options like home insulation, solar hot water, and solar PV.
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written by p, April 19, 2008
Thank you for this post. I was feeling guilty this whole time, thinking I need to buy a Prius right now. But now, I can rest easy knowing I can wait 'til 2010!
Here's a question: Is it more environmentally friendly to buy a USED Prius... or buy a NEW electric/ electric-hybrid car in 2010, which will have all the added fuel saving features, but have the added pollution from manufacturing.
Here's a question: Is it more environmentally friendly to buy a USED Prius... or buy a NEW electric/ electric-hybrid car in 2010, which will have all the added fuel saving features, but have the added pollution from manufacturing.
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written by BBM, April 19, 2008
Like I said, I don't expect the newest tech cars to be available to regular people (eg without connections) in any numbers in 2010... so I wouldn't necessarily wait. I was saying that you might do better spending money on an efficient car (Honda Civic) and the rest on other improvements in the home to reduce CO2 generation.
Buying used does not eliminate the pollution of creating a new car. Presumably, the person you're buying from has to replace the car he's sold. So he buys a car and that car has to be produced. So buying used means that the pollution from construction doesn't get "assigned" to you, but it still gets produced.
Same with the car you are replacing. Presumably you are going to sell it, not destroy it, right? So it will still get driven... just by someone else.
What buying a more efficient car does do however, is help create the markets for, and push producers into making more of the type of car you end up buying. So it is still important.
Buying used does not eliminate the pollution of creating a new car. Presumably, the person you're buying from has to replace the car he's sold. So he buys a car and that car has to be produced. So buying used means that the pollution from construction doesn't get "assigned" to you, but it still gets produced.
Same with the car you are replacing. Presumably you are going to sell it, not destroy it, right? So it will still get driven... just by someone else.
What buying a more efficient car does do however, is help create the markets for, and push producers into making more of the type of car you end up buying. So it is still important.
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written by David J., April 19, 2008
Without fail, every time there is a posting about EVs, someone eventually states that EVs are actually more polluting than our current gasoline-powered vehicles. What irks me when someone makes such a statement is that they AUTOMATICALLY assume that the EV owner is unquestionably getting all of their energy source from coal. Did it ever occur to these individuals that the very same people that would go out of their way to get an electric vehicle are the same people that are also very likely to have alternative energy sources such as solar panels or urban wind power? In which case their EVs will essentially be powered by the sun or the wind at least part of the time, as opposed to being powered by a polluting source 100% of the time with our current gasoline-powered vehicles. And, we can't forget the fact that solar power is increasingly becoming more efficient and affordable at very promising rates. As are other clean energy technologies.
I'll take an EV over an oil powered vehicle any day.
I'll take an EV over an oil powered vehicle any day.
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written by drew Schnierow, April 19, 2008
WOW!!! Read that company http://zeropollutionmotors.us/ I want one...only 17k @ can be on the highway for 800 miles!!!
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written by BBM, April 19, 2008
Without fail, every time there is a posting about EVs, someone eventually states that EVs are actually more polluting than our current gasoline-powered vehicles. What irks me when someone makes such a statement is that they AUTOMATICALLY assume that the EV owner is unquestionably getting all of their energy source from coal.
No, these people are not idiots. The point these people are trying to make is that EVs are not currently scalable as a solution to emissions problems. If a large proportion of the fleet went electric (currently) there are not enough alternative sources to supply them. It would be largely coal supplying the extra electricity.
Yes it is nice if a few people buy EVs and power them with solar pannels etc. It's great for reducing their emissions. But in terms a big impact on total emissions, it really isn't much. All that does is make those few people feel good. What we need are truly scalable solutions.
I am confident that these are coming (solar, nuclear, geothermal, etc)... but they aren;t here yet.
This is why it is important to look at less sexy ways to reduce emissions... insulate, solar hot water, live closer to work, etc.
No, these people are not idiots. The point these people are trying to make is that EVs are not currently scalable as a solution to emissions problems. If a large proportion of the fleet went electric (currently) there are not enough alternative sources to supply them. It would be largely coal supplying the extra electricity.
Yes it is nice if a few people buy EVs and power them with solar pannels etc. It's great for reducing their emissions. But in terms a big impact on total emissions, it really isn't much. All that does is make those few people feel good. What we need are truly scalable solutions.
I am confident that these are coming (solar, nuclear, geothermal, etc)... but they aren;t here yet.
This is why it is important to look at less sexy ways to reduce emissions... insulate, solar hot water, live closer to work, etc.
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written by BBM, April 19, 2008
WOW!!! Read that company http://zeropollutionmotors.us/ I want one...only 17k @ can be on the highway for 800 miles!!!
I wonder what the overall efficiency is here. Their charger is 5.5kw and it looks (if I interpret correctly) like it would take 4 hours to compress enough air for a tank... that's about 22kwh. How far can you drive on that? And speeds would be limited to
I wonder what the overall efficiency is here. Their charger is 5.5kw and it looks (if I interpret correctly) like it would take 4 hours to compress enough air for a tank... that's about 22kwh. How far can you drive on that? And speeds would be limited to
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written by Dave, April 20, 2008
Why is everyone assuming the only benefit from an EV compared to gas/diesel is that CO2 emissions will only be significantly lower if your electricity doesn't come from coal?
What about the other significant benefit of reducing our dependency on foreign oil in a time when the dollar is weakening by the day? Or the fact that even powered by coal, the cost per mile of an EV will also be significantly less than the cost per mile of a gas/diesel car?
Or the fact that it's already well recognized that coal power plants aren't sustainable and more wind/solar/other renewable power plants (not to a mention a recent resurgence of nuclear plants) are coming online every day? And that wind/solar technology is also advancing at a rapid rate?
What about the other significant benefit of reducing our dependency on foreign oil in a time when the dollar is weakening by the day? Or the fact that even powered by coal, the cost per mile of an EV will also be significantly less than the cost per mile of a gas/diesel car?
Or the fact that it's already well recognized that coal power plants aren't sustainable and more wind/solar/other renewable power plants (not to a mention a recent resurgence of nuclear plants) are coming online every day? And that wind/solar technology is also advancing at a rapid rate?
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written by Chris, April 20, 2008
A car will never be green. It is a simple fact. At least until we develop some new technology, but this won't happen until it is too late.
So instead of buying cars, lets have better city planning, better public transportation, bike once and a while, or walk for once! You don't need a 7000 pound car and a gallon of gas to go one block to the store to pick up a carton of milk! Just think about it...
So instead of buying cars, lets have better city planning, better public transportation, bike once and a while, or walk for once! You don't need a 7000 pound car and a gallon of gas to go one block to the store to pick up a carton of milk! Just think about it...
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written by Chris, April 20, 2008
Not a very smart idea for fuel. Instead of feeding the hungry, or ourselves, we are using our food to run our cars. Bio fuels are one contributing factor to the current world food crisis. Rearing cattle would be another major cause. Lets just get rid of the automobile, it does us no good. We need better city planning (no suburbs, sprawl), better public transportation. There is also a high percentage of our car journeys that could be walked. Walk or bike. In doing so you will get exercise, stay healthy, burn no emissions and save money that you would spend on both the gym and a car, (and parking, insurance, drivers license, health insurance if you were to get into a car accident, gas, car wash, etc...etc...) Liberating yourself from the confinement of owning a car sounds like a win-win situation to me.
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written by dotcommodity, April 20, 2008
you got a link where they specify this in their own words?
"Mitsubishi's iMiev is already on sale in Japan, but they've promised to bring the two-seater all-electric vehicle to... the U.S. by 2010."
I have read many loosely worded interpreted as hopeful pieces at green car congress and autoblog green, but never a specific promise to sell here.
"Mitsubishi's iMiev is already on sale in Japan, but they've promised to bring the two-seater all-electric vehicle to... the U.S. by 2010."
I have read many loosely worded interpreted as hopeful pieces at green car congress and autoblog green, but never a specific promise to sell here.
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written by Josh Trutt, April 21, 2008
A few mistakes above... the next Prius will be out in late 2009 as a 2010 model but will still use NiMH batteries. The Li-ion version will come later (as will the plug-in version), but no one is sure when (including Toyota, it seems). The next Prius will probably get 10-15% better mileage than the current one, so that means about 53mpg (real world... probably over 60mpg if you drive like a turtle. Current Prius is 46mpg real-world), and it will definitely be available to the masses by 2010. The AirCar is certainly interesting. And to those who argue about recharging on coal, it is becoming more obvious every day that our power grid will shift more and more to renewables. Roughly 20 states have renewable portfolio standards already, the governor of Kansas just vetoed two coal power plants, and oil billionaire T. Boone Pickens just announced an astounding $10 billion, four GIGAwatt wind-and-solar plan to be up and running by 2014 (1 Gigawatt by 2011, the other 3 by 2014). So, as the grid is getting cleaner, plug-ins and EVs are making much more sense.
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written by Jomo, April 22, 2008
When is Ford going to wake up and see that there is a market for hybrid passenger cars?
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written by Josh Trutt, April 22, 2008
Ford woke up four years ago. They're on their second generation hybrid Escape now, and the Mercury Mariner hybrid and Mazda Tribute hybrid are from the same platform. The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans will also both be "hybridized" for 2009, which is easy to believe since they share the same engine as the Escape and Mariner. Both sedans supposedly can be ordered late 2008.
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written by Trillium, April 22, 2008
any suggestions along the same lines for 7-8 seaters? we've looked into highlander hybrids but the price is fairly steep and non-negotiable. all of the other smaller SUVs seat only 5. I need room for the kiddies.
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written by Doug, April 23, 2008
Hi all, great commments, but do not wait til 2010 to buy a Hybrid or electric. I have a Camry Hybrid and it is paying off in gas savings what I paid extra for it. Do not beleive the auto journals for a minute. The guys(gals) that do road tests do not drive hybrids as they should be driven and as a result thier lower payback calculations. They also forget the main reason for switching to non gasoline cars. CO2 emmissions! If we all switched today we would likely meet Kyoto targets.
Second issue is the range for electrics and the ability for highway speeds. Next time you drive to work late, look at all the cars still in driveways. The fact is most N.A. families have 2 cars and the second car is usually a stinky old junker used to run to the store or pick up the kids or a dozen other local errands. This is perfect for replacement by an electric vehicle. If we switch to green power providers you can drive an electric with ZERO emmissions.
Remeber there are always solutions if you are willing to look for them and keep an open mind.
Second issue is the range for electrics and the ability for highway speeds. Next time you drive to work late, look at all the cars still in driveways. The fact is most N.A. families have 2 cars and the second car is usually a stinky old junker used to run to the store or pick up the kids or a dozen other local errands. This is perfect for replacement by an electric vehicle. If we switch to green power providers you can drive an electric with ZERO emmissions.
Remeber there are always solutions if you are willing to look for them and keep an open mind.
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written by dm, April 25, 2008
My recommendation: if you're in the market for a car now, buy a used hybrid. Chances are the previous owner has bought a new one, so you buying the used one means (a) there are now two of you driving hybrids and (b) one less car new car has to be made.
(I know, the car has already been made, but I've heard the same argument for eating veal - that the calf has already been slaughtered. Reduce demand and extrapolate the supply/demand relationship for future production.)
Re biofuel arguments, there's a big difference between using waste oil as fuel and replacing food crops with fuel crops. Vegetable oil is already and will remain a part of the food sector, and capturing post-fry product for fuel is a great use of that waste. Very different story from corn-to-ethanol.
(I know, the car has already been made, but I've heard the same argument for eating veal - that the calf has already been slaughtered. Reduce demand and extrapolate the supply/demand relationship for future production.)
Re biofuel arguments, there's a big difference between using waste oil as fuel and replacing food crops with fuel crops. Vegetable oil is already and will remain a part of the food sector, and capturing post-fry product for fuel is a great use of that waste. Very different story from corn-to-ethanol.
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written by Stephen, April 25, 2008
Lithium Ion is much more efficient than the currrent NiMH batteries, but Li-Ion batteries don't tolerate heat very well. Neither do hydrogen fuel cells.
If you live in a hot weather climate, you might be waiting several years beyond 2010 for the kinks to be worked out. This is a serious concern where I live in Phoenix. The current Li-Ion conversions are not recommended here as the battery compartment temperatures can reach over 200 degrees from being in the sun. They can potentially warp or explode when the vehicle's electric mode is used at those temperatures.
Phoenix is a bit of an extreme example, but if you live where it's hot, consider buying a current gen hybrid.
If you live in a hot weather climate, you might be waiting several years beyond 2010 for the kinks to be worked out. This is a serious concern where I live in Phoenix. The current Li-Ion conversions are not recommended here as the battery compartment temperatures can reach over 200 degrees from being in the sun. They can potentially warp or explode when the vehicle's electric mode is used at those temperatures.
Phoenix is a bit of an extreme example, but if you live where it's hot, consider buying a current gen hybrid.
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written by S. Hirsch, April 29, 2008
All Electric vehicles have other environmental advantages over ICE vehicles. They require no oil changes, coolant changes. These automotive wastes account for ancillary pollution, especially when they leak. Electric cars will last longer than ICE cars because of the simplicity of the power train and very little motor wear. Thus an electric car should last at least 1/2 million miles compared with 250,000 for an ICE car. The battery and tires being the biggest maintenance expense.
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written by John L., May 01, 2008
Some good comments but some of us need the large SUV to haul multiple kids and things - and frankly, after being rear-ended in a prior Yukon, I'm glad we had the big car because our kids were just fine while the other car was totaled.
We just bought GMC's new hybrid Yukon and while it is far from an economy car it seems to live up to it's promised mileage claims. GMC seems to be taking the move to better mileage seriously though they have a long way to go - I'd personally like this with larger batteries (if possible) and a plug-in plus more performance in all-electric mode. We've had this Yukon just over a month and pulled 23.4 mpg on a 160 mile trip on our first out-of-town drive. In town, mileage runs 18.5 on short hauls (not much warm-up) to just over 20 when there's more driving needed - all that with 4 wheel drive, which we have had to use already out in the country where we have property.
As for those who comment on better city planning, adding bike paths is great except in the northern snow belts where many of us live, and I have no desire to be jammed into dense housing with neighbors spitting distance away. Light rail or streetcars is a great way to go if you want ridership and people getting away from cars.
We just bought GMC's new hybrid Yukon and while it is far from an economy car it seems to live up to it's promised mileage claims. GMC seems to be taking the move to better mileage seriously though they have a long way to go - I'd personally like this with larger batteries (if possible) and a plug-in plus more performance in all-electric mode. We've had this Yukon just over a month and pulled 23.4 mpg on a 160 mile trip on our first out-of-town drive. In town, mileage runs 18.5 on short hauls (not much warm-up) to just over 20 when there's more driving needed - all that with 4 wheel drive, which we have had to use already out in the country where we have property.
As for those who comment on better city planning, adding bike paths is great except in the northern snow belts where many of us live, and I have no desire to be jammed into dense housing with neighbors spitting distance away. Light rail or streetcars is a great way to go if you want ridership and people getting away from cars.
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written by Marta, May 07, 2008
I'm really glad to read all of these different opinions on "green cars." I have been thinking of waiting a couple more years to buy a new/used car anyway. My car is ten years old now and still in pretty good shape. I'm really glad that SOMEONE has the good sense to create a car with a top speed of 80. Sorry guys, but being a mom of two new drivers (17 & 15) and a Registered Nurse who works in a Level 1 Trauma Center, I see absolutely no reason for a car to go faster than 80mph. I also hope the car companies expand the EV to include the minivans. Look at how many of these there are on the road.
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written by Sean Best, May 11, 2008
Even if your grid supply is 100% coal, an electric car has much higher efficiency factors than a petroleum vehicle *and doesn't burn gasoline*. At least the coal-fired power plant is always operating at optimum efficiency unlike the engine of an automobile! And the truth is, virtually nobody has electricity that is 100% coal ...
CO2 aside, I'd rather burn American coal than foreign oil.
CO2 aside, I'd rather burn American coal than foreign oil.
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okay i guess 
written by Fleiter, June 03, 2008
You say almost every type of car will soon be available in a green version. Yeah, how about a fun car that's sleek and sporty for under $40K? Also, how about a hybrid that isn't vastly overpriced. The 4-cylinder Prius almost got as many mpg as the hybrid, but it cost $10K less. Nobody bought it because it was ugly. It's still ugly, but now it's green and has all the acceleration of a block of wood. Is this our future? Ugly cars that barely move. If so, the future sucks.
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written by j.wen, June 03, 2008
All of these hybrid and electric vehicles are a great idea, I truly love them, they look great and are great on the wallet and the economy. There is a lot of options for people when looking for a new vehicle, but there are no options for people with children. I know there are SUVs (Escape, Mariner) but they do not offer the room for 3 teenagers in the back seat. Where are the hybrid minivans.
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written by ride a bike, June 03, 2008
The Prius is gay its the next mazda miata only gay people will drive it soo dont get it. I mean hybrids are a smart idea but dont get the Prius.
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written by 9q8yf, June 03, 2008
I don't know if the people think about that because green cars are expensive so...hmm...i'm a kid from EU..and i can't wait to go to USA and buy a mustang :X evan if...its NOT GREEN
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written by DD, June 03, 2008
Save a car ~ ride a horse! Feeding one horse for one week costs me less than $10 and that is waaayyy less that filling up my SUV. I have 5 children so many of the green cars are out of the questions at this point for my family. We need room for 7. Seriously, maybe I'll invest in an Amish buggy and use real horse power to take us to-and fro!
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written by NS, June 03, 2008
If one is the willing to wait for a year or so for new improved EV products, some of ZAP's upcoming products are really worth checking out: http://www.zapworld.com/zap-x-crossover and http://www.zapworld.com/electr.../zap-alias
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written by Fleiter, June 03, 2008
I agree with you NS. The Zap-X is very cool, Am I supposed to mortgage my house to pay for it? It costs $60K. The payment on that would be about $1,000 per month even if you put down $20K.
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written by Reality, please....., June 03, 2008
Scientists, having predicted an "ice age" in the late 1970s and "global warming" in the late 1990s, will predict in 2020 that the Earth is neither cooling nor warming, but in fact disolving into a pool of radiating energy. The good news is that aliens driving SUVs (space utility vortex) ships will have a new energy source.
Enjoy your SUVs, trucks, Mustangs, etc will the roads still exist!
Enjoy your SUVs, trucks, Mustangs, etc will the roads still exist!
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written by Marc, June 03, 2008
If we weren't so obsessed with having enormous and heavy cars and SUVs that accelerate like sports cars we could have very good MPG numbers right now. Back in the early 90s I had a Honda Del Sol that got 40 mpg on the highway. Then in 97 I got a CIVIC HX that got 44mpg. Both cars were under 3000 lbs and drove great. I had a friend in the 80s with a Civic CRX that got almost 50 mpg. If we scale down our cars a bit we could be way more efficient. Honda stopped making the HX when the Hybrid came out, I assume because the HX got very close to the hybrid's efficiency without the added cost of the hybrid system. All these cars also had some of the lowest emissions numbers for any Gas burning cars in the US.
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written by JD, June 04, 2008
TATA has already launched its battery powered two seater in INDIA which will be on roads by 2009.
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written by Mark Kiernan, June 05, 2008
I live in Italy and I can't buy an electric car. I travel about 40kms to work everday (I cant take the bicycle as I have to take the highway), why cant we have a electric car in Italy.
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written by dave, July 06, 2008
I am waiting to buy a new car as i believe the author is correct in saying to wait. It is interesting that in europe; there is so much more available -- they have ford pirous that runs on diesel that gets over 62 mpg..and its not a hybrid.
Of course, this car wont be available in US as the US has stricter restrictions for small fuel efficient diesel cars...but what is stupid is that a SUV diesel does not need to meet the tougher pollution standards; only small fuel efficient vehicles have to meet it...how dumb is that as it only encourages the development of larger gas guzzlers with lessoned emmision requirements. I wish the US government would get the head out of there ....
Of course, this car wont be available in US as the US has stricter restrictions for small fuel efficient diesel cars...but what is stupid is that a SUV diesel does not need to meet the tougher pollution standards; only small fuel efficient vehicles have to meet it...how dumb is that as it only encourages the development of larger gas guzzlers with lessoned emmision requirements. I wish the US government would get the head out of there ....
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written by smifffffy, September 27, 2008
How do you charge your electric car you PLUG IT IN to the power socket in your home running up your power bill.
Plus how much extra power will be needed if thousands of people buy the cars then plug them in at night to charge them up.
Plus how much extra power will be needed if thousands of people buy the cars then plug them in at night to charge them up.
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written by Paul, October 04, 2008
I made an Electric car for about $2200. It works great and is really fun to drive. I also had almost no mechanical experience. Check out my youtube videos on how I did it. Look up MPaulHolmes on youtube for more information.
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written by themanieldaniel, October 15, 2008
it seems i never hear about Phoenix motorcars on these discussions. they have fleets of electric vehicles on the road today. no, they aren't available for the "public" but they are out on the road right now being used in real situations for real companies.
last year Phoenix had a consumer launch date for 2008, now their website says 2010 like everyone else. what i want to know is what's the deal? why is everyone waiting until 2010 to launch?
last year Phoenix had a consumer launch date for 2008, now their website says 2010 like everyone else. what i want to know is what's the deal? why is everyone waiting until 2010 to launch?
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written by Peter Oppewall, November 29, 2008
You can find many more options in electric drive vehicles by visiting this free portal to sustainable transportation http://EVtransPortal.com.
Present options include everything from lithium powered bikes to electric drive buses, and everything in between. There is tremendous growth in this industry, with new advances in technology making sustainable transportation a viable option.
Present options include everything from lithium powered bikes to electric drive buses, and everything in between. There is tremendous growth in this industry, with new advances in technology making sustainable transportation a viable option.
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written by MM, August 09, 2009
re: smifffffy's comments...
The idea of having lots of people charging up their cars overnight makes a lot of sense! For decades the utility industry has had to base their capacity on the peak demand, which generally occurs during the business day. If they could sell as much electricity at night, then the fixed cost portion for electric bills could be spread over far more KWH of electricity sold. This should lead to lower rates for electricity as these plants would be used much more efficiently. It will also provide much more incentive to complete the R&D and deployment of carbon sequestration technology, which will allow coal plants to become "sustainable", in concert with the environment, and allow America to depend upon its most abundant resource (while depriving unfriendly foreign suppliers of American money) for decades (and centuries if necessary) while more permanent solutions to energy are developed. Eventually these coal plants will wear out, and perhaps solar, wind, and advanced nuclear technology (including fusion?) may become commercially viable.
The idea of having lots of people charging up their cars overnight makes a lot of sense! For decades the utility industry has had to base their capacity on the peak demand, which generally occurs during the business day. If they could sell as much electricity at night, then the fixed cost portion for electric bills could be spread over far more KWH of electricity sold. This should lead to lower rates for electricity as these plants would be used much more efficiently. It will also provide much more incentive to complete the R&D and deployment of carbon sequestration technology, which will allow coal plants to become "sustainable", in concert with the environment, and allow America to depend upon its most abundant resource (while depriving unfriendly foreign suppliers of American money) for decades (and centuries if necessary) while more permanent solutions to energy are developed. Eventually these coal plants will wear out, and perhaps solar, wind, and advanced nuclear technology (including fusion?) may become commercially viable.
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written by Golf carts, July 27, 2010
Those days, there are more and more Golf Cart fans, indeed, it is a really charming activity. Here I will give you some advice about how to choose a golf cart.
Last year,I brought a golf cart from Shenzhen in china,I got many informations before I got it,I emailed many companies about golf cart though Alibaba Business Platform.Compared several days,I chosed a company with a good reputation in the community for customer service and good quality,timely delivery.Besides,I am pleased to make friends with the trader of the company.Now,I will tell U some secret about how to buy a golf cart.
First of all,Make certain that you have a big enough area for storage so that it will simply accommodate the golf cart that you intend to buy.Secondly,you mast sure that the golf cart you choose will fit very well within the weight limits from the course that you usually play on.Thirdly,It is a big problem that whether or not you will be able to plug your electric cart in each night to recharge the batteries. Besides,never let the batteries run down to the point exactly where they no longer have a charge left,in order to keep it in good working order,it’ll be considerable important for you to perform the regular maintenance needed for the golf cart.
That is all my experiences about how to choose a Golf Cart, oh,it is seemed that I forget to say the company,it is marshell.
Last year,I brought a golf cart from Shenzhen in china,I got many informations before I got it,I emailed many companies about golf cart though Alibaba Business Platform.Compared several days,I chosed a company with a good reputation in the community for customer service and good quality,timely delivery.Besides,I am pleased to make friends with the trader of the company.Now,I will tell U some secret about how to buy a golf cart.
First of all,Make certain that you have a big enough area for storage so that it will simply accommodate the golf cart that you intend to buy.Secondly,you mast sure that the golf cart you choose will fit very well within the weight limits from the course that you usually play on.Thirdly,It is a big problem that whether or not you will be able to plug your electric cart in each night to recharge the batteries. Besides,never let the batteries run down to the point exactly where they no longer have a charge left,in order to keep it in good working order,it’ll be considerable important for you to perform the regular maintenance needed for the golf cart.
That is all my experiences about how to choose a Golf Cart, oh,it is seemed that I forget to say the company,it is marshell.
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written by utility vehicle, October 15, 2010
I am waiting to buy a new car as i believe the author is correct in saying to wait. It is interesting that in europe; there is so much more available -- they have ford pirous that runs on diesel that gets over 62 mpg..and its not a hybrid.
If we weren't so obsessed with having enormous and heavy cars and SUVs that accelerate like sports cars we could have very good MPG numbers right now. Back in the early 90s I had a Honda Del Sol that got 40 mpg on the highway. Then in 97 I got a CIVIC HX that got 44mpg. Both cars were under 3000 lbs and drove great. I had a friend in the 80s with a Civic CRX that got almost 50 mpg. If we scale down our cars a bit we could be way more efficient. Honda stopped making the HX when the Hybrid came out, I assume because the HX got very close to the hybrid's efficiency without the added cost of the hybrid system. All these cars also had some of the lowest emissions numbers for any Gas burning cars in the US.
If we weren't so obsessed with having enormous and heavy cars and SUVs that accelerate like sports cars we could have very good MPG numbers right now. Back in the early 90s I had a Honda Del Sol that got 40 mpg on the highway. Then in 97 I got a CIVIC HX that got 44mpg. Both cars were under 3000 lbs and drove great. I had a friend in the 80s with a Civic CRX that got almost 50 mpg. If we scale down our cars a bit we could be way more efficient. Honda stopped making the HX when the Hybrid came out, I assume because the HX got very close to the hybrid's efficiency without the added cost of the hybrid system. All these cars also had some of the lowest emissions numbers for any Gas burning cars in the US.
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I may take your advice and see what shakes out in the car arena. In the meantime, I'm very tempted to order an electric motorcycle. The Enertia seems overpriced at $12,000, but the batteries beat the EVT and Vetrix.
Check out my comparison spreadsheet at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pKhrZrDVhRVmSNR1enaRmEQ