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OK, we've heard the disparagement of the Prius. It's too small, too slow, and too prissy. Auto-enthusiasts are...well...unenthusiastic with the car. But, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that the point?
One of the really fantastic things about the Prius is that it doesn't give you 150% of what you need. You can't fit five bodies in the trunk and you won't win any drag races, but you will have a nice functional car that uses a heck-of-a-lot less gas.
But after nearly ten years of success with the car, Toyota wants to bring something new to the table. The new model Prius (2009 or 2010, we're not sure) will be bigger, longer, more powerful, and faster. All of this will come along with an increase in fuel economy as well. But a bigger engine and body mean that the heavier car will be losing total efficiency, even if a slightly-improved hybrid system bumps the mileage up a few miles per gallon.
With a larger hybrid system, and a smaller engine, we would see much larger gains. And with a plug-in system, like the one you can now buy from hymotion, the Prius could get an effective fuel-economy upwards of 100 mpg.
The good news is that Toyota seems to be looking at broadening the range of the Prius, making it into a kind of sub-brand. There might be a sub-compact version of the car, which could see very exciting mileage numbers. And they're also looking at creating a version for their Lexus brand that would be faster, larger, and less efficient.
I'm also a little disappointed in the lack of a plug-in option for this next-gen Prius, and Toyota's continuing reliance on nickel batteries. While lithium-ion remain in their sights, Toyota seems too fat and happy with their current dominance in hybrid technology to really be going after this new technology.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Prius, and I'm looking forward to driving the new and improved version one of these days. But Toyota needs to re-affirm its focus on efficiency with something spectacular before I'll buy into this Prius beef-up.
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written by MattKelly, April 29, 2008
Well I for one am glad at least that after 10 years, the Prius is finally getting a new look.
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written by MichelleBennett, April 29, 2008
I drive a Prius and I don't think it's too small or too slow. I live alone, so I don't often carry passengers, but if I did they would have plenty of room... assuming they maintain a remotely healthy weight. I've moved my things in it and it all fits if I pack it in well.
Admittedly you're not going to win any races in the Prius, but when you need to go it will go. Anyone who wants to save some money on gas will ease off the pedal. I think it depends on what kind of car enthusiasts you talk to; on the hyper-miling boards the Prius is popular. And not just because it's a hybrid (some light-weight compact cars also get excellent mileage).
I downsized to my Prius (I drove a Toyota Highland before) but I don't miss the extra space or more powerful engine. They're luxury items, but at the end of the day you're toting around a bunch of fancy baggage - and paying for it at the pump.
Admittedly you're not going to win any races in the Prius, but when you need to go it will go. Anyone who wants to save some money on gas will ease off the pedal. I think it depends on what kind of car enthusiasts you talk to; on the hyper-miling boards the Prius is popular. And not just because it's a hybrid (some light-weight compact cars also get excellent mileage).
I downsized to my Prius (I drove a Toyota Highland before) but I don't miss the extra space or more powerful engine. They're luxury items, but at the end of the day you're toting around a bunch of fancy baggage - and paying for it at the pump.
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written by Solar Dave, April 29, 2008
They should make a different model if it is going to be bigger and keep the original smaller model.
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written by James, April 29, 2008
I too am disappointed that they are making the Prius a bigger, more powerful car. Why, why, why? They have sold like hotcakes, and which would sell more cars, making it bigger or having it get 70mpg. Maybe ten years ago bigger was better, but that was when we were paying $1.50 a gallon for gas. Not sure what Toyota is thinking here, but if the new Jetta gets better fuel economy then I'm going with the VW.
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written by Josh, April 30, 2008
I'm sure they're not going to turn it into a suburban. The big thing is Prius screams "chick car." It's design, the little toy shifter, everything. If they can modify it a little and make it look a bit more manly it might sell even better. I do think they should have the two variations though. The current one and the new one they want to release.
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written by Andy, April 30, 2008
The answer here is very simple, and I'm surprised you didn't mention it. The Prius is the most efficient new car for purchase in the US right now. Until another major company come out with a more efficient car, Toyota has no financial benefit by making improving the gas mileage of the Prius.
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written by Phillip, April 30, 2008
I was at a transport talk recently and a chap there mentioned that Toyota plan to have plugin hybrids rolled out by 2010 and for there entire fleet to be hybrid by 2020.
Now, the details I've provided above could be off slightly as I'm relying on memory. I'll do my best to dig up my notes from the talk.
In anycase, good news.
Now, the details I've provided above could be off slightly as I'm relying on memory. I'll do my best to dig up my notes from the talk.
In anycase, good news.
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written by Ben, April 30, 2008
I would argue against Toyota being "fat and happy" and too lazy to pursue Li-ion. Nickel metal hydride is a very good choice for hybrid cars. It has good calendar life, good cycle life, reasonable energy density, and a hell of a lot of data to back it up. Li-ion offers better energy density, but also fire hazards, shorter calendar life, potentially shorter cycle life, and more cost. There may be some sound engineering reasons behind sticking with Nickel.
As for not pursuing a plug-in, I totally agree, I really expected better from Toyota.
As for not pursuing a plug-in, I totally agree, I really expected better from Toyota.
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written by Ken Grubb, April 30, 2008
I'm somewhat disappointed the Prius is getting bigger. The better solution, if that's where the market demand lies, is to build another larger model Prius vehicle. Something which is designed and built from the ground up as a hybrid. The significant fuel economy of the Prius over the hybrid Camry speaks to the need for hybrids to be designed as a hybrid, not converted to hybrid status. Hybrids are great, but the engineering differences would seem to dictate the vehicle needs to be born and bred a hybrid. With all that said, no other carmaker can come close to what Toyota has done in changing the market and meeting hybrid demand.
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written by Josh Trutt, April 30, 2008
Toyota is aggressively pursuing Li-ion. Their original plan was to have the next-gen Prius with Li-ion batteries out at the end of this year. Problem was, they bet on the wrong Li-ion technology and so their batteries aren't yet deemed safe. (A123 Systems, Valence Technologies, Continental AG and others have chosen different Li-ion technology and have all gotten to the point where they're ready to use them in vehicles-- which is why GM decided to just pay Continental AG for their batteries, rather than develop their own for the Volt. Toyota has been developing batteries with Panasonic, and chose the wrong technology.) So Toyota had to delay the next Prius by 6 months and tell it's engineers to rework it for NiMH batteries rather than Li-ion. The current Prius gets about 46 real-world mpg if you drive without any thought to mileage. The next one will get about 12% better, so about 53mpg without trying. It will also be 1 second faster 0-60, which is just enough to make people stop bitching about it's accelleration. By increasing the exterior dimensions slightly (4 inches longer, 1 inch wider), they will eliminate another common mistake: people calling it a compact car even though it's interior dimensions are well within "midsize". This leads to a lot of idiotic cost-vs-mileage comparisons with smaller cars. (Diesel fans love to argue that the Prius compares poorly with a diesel 2-door VW that is much smaller, for example.)
In short, it will be faster, get better mileage, and only be slightly larger. Better in every way. And I will bet it costs the same as the current model.
In short, it will be faster, get better mileage, and only be slightly larger. Better in every way. And I will bet it costs the same as the current model.
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written by Jacob, May 01, 2008
Making vehicles more efficient just means you can make them bigger. Technology won't save us unless we let it; technology won't save us unless we are willing to not only forgo increases in consumption, but to decrease our consumption. Technology won't save us unless we actually change our lifestyles.
And to change our lifestyles we'll have to change our infrastructure.
And to change our lifestyles we'll have to change our infrastructure.
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written by Bob Hickling, May 01, 2008
Before you get too upset about "bigger", it might help to quantify it. They said 4" longer and 1" wider. That's something like 2% longer and 1% wider for an increase of about 3%. That may or may not translate to 3% added body weight (~90 lbs), but one of the attributes of the new synergy drive was that it was supposed to have a lighter and cheaper drive train. So, bigger 3rd generation may not lead to lower mileage than 2nd generation due to weight, but I guess it has to mean that 3rd generation is a hair worse than it could have been without the added 3% body fat.
I find it a little hard to get too excited about. Sounds to me like fine tuning of the balance between economy and other little things that they think will sell the car. If Detroit would get off their kick of trying to improve their 20 mpg tanks to 25 and the 25 mpg sedans to 30 and get themselves into the modern world of 45-75 mpg, maybe they'd do better. Way better mileage is inevitable, is it not? Hello, Motown, is anybody listening?
And if you really want to cut the cost of transportation, get a plug-in car and put a solar panel on your roof.
I find it a little hard to get too excited about. Sounds to me like fine tuning of the balance between economy and other little things that they think will sell the car. If Detroit would get off their kick of trying to improve their 20 mpg tanks to 25 and the 25 mpg sedans to 30 and get themselves into the modern world of 45-75 mpg, maybe they'd do better. Way better mileage is inevitable, is it not? Hello, Motown, is anybody listening?
And if you really want to cut the cost of transportation, get a plug-in car and put a solar panel on your roof.
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written by Mike Stabile, May 02, 2008
Look, if increasing the size and power without reducing the mpg will attract a significant portion of the car-buyers that would otherwise purchase much lower mpg vehicles (for the same size and power), then that is much more important right now than tweaking a few more mpg out of the design. Right now its more important to get new buyers comfortable with hybrids by getting them to become new advocates of the car type (possibly for life). I think its a great move by Toyota.
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written by Patricia M, May 03, 2008
I love my Prius, but....I've personally never seen one driven by an obese person. Considering the size and shape of so many Americans, a wider, roomier and easier to enter/exit auto model would greatly increase a hybrids appeal. On a recent trip I rented a larger mid-size car to shuttle some typically larger relatives and found that they could barely squeeze into the passenger seat and not at all in the the back seats. They opted drive around in full-size pick-up trucks rather than squeeze into a sedan.
Also, the Prius appears smaller than it is. Most every first-time Prius rider I've driven always comments that they didn't realize how roomy they are. So, while I also yearn for smaller and more efficient cars, I think Toyota has done it's homework. I'm sure more than a few dealers have noticed that heavy-weights shy away from smaller vehicles because they just can't fit into the seats or exit gracefully.
To me, a larger car that's attractive to heftier folks could mean a greater cross-sectipon of people who do care about the environment would have a vehicle they would be comfortable driving.
Also, the Prius appears smaller than it is. Most every first-time Prius rider I've driven always comments that they didn't realize how roomy they are. So, while I also yearn for smaller and more efficient cars, I think Toyota has done it's homework. I'm sure more than a few dealers have noticed that heavy-weights shy away from smaller vehicles because they just can't fit into the seats or exit gracefully.
To me, a larger car that's attractive to heftier folks could mean a greater cross-sectipon of people who do care about the environment would have a vehicle they would be comfortable driving.
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written by Kenneth Williams, May 04, 2008
I drive a 2005 Salsa Red Prius, Love the car. I am obese, and short, car is very comfortable, First, I want better miles. Re-design of rear window area would be an improvement, the vehicle shown here, is an improvement in design.
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written by Allen, May 04, 2008
I have a 2007 Prius and love it. It's comfortable, fun to drive and extremely roomy. I recently helped a friend move to a new house. With the rear seats down I could carry a phenomenal amount of cargo. As for the obesity factor, several of my friends are on the "large" size and have all commented on how comfortable the car is. If the new slightly larger generation attracts a wider audience so much the better.
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written by doug card, May 07, 2008
Josh above is right, and when you consider the advances the Li-Ion is likely to add, bigger will be fine. For instance with Li-Ion, the bigger car will get 65 or 70mpg and with plug in get over 100 effective. Add the new Solar technology announced last week and we (anyone) can be carbon free by 2015.
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written by khefer, May 09, 2008
written by Josh , April 29, 2008
"If they can modify it a little and make it look a bit more manly it might sell even better."
Manly car...you know what that means: cruising around for a little man meat, Brokeback Mountain kind of love.
"If they can modify it a little and make it look a bit more manly it might sell even better."
Manly car...you know what that means: cruising around for a little man meat, Brokeback Mountain kind of love.
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written by Al, May 30, 2008
My first Prius was a 2002. It got 44.5 MPG measured by the pump. Unfortunately I traded that in on a 2005 second generation Prius. It gets 47.6 MPG, is larger, has more cargo carrying capacity but no lockable trunk, has a larger turning radius and is not as comfortable on a trip. It accelerates faster, goes faster (by 3MPH) and was not worth the difference in price. This next one will also be larger, hold more, faster and get better mileage, but not enough to make me consider a trade up. Now take the mileage I now get, calculate how much money I have saved in gas and maintenance over my Dodge truck, and the Prius is a no brainer of a buy. I didn't even get a good tax break ($100) and it is still a great buy. I don't understand why people want to go over 100MPH, nor acclerate any faster than 10 seconds to 60MPH. I regularly carry a friend to Tucson and back in the Prius, every other week. He drives his truck on off weeks and my car is way more comfortable than his truck. He weighs well over 350 pounds. He is over six feet in height. Sit in the rear of a Prius and then in any American full size sedan and compare before even suggesting that is car is too small. One drawback, very little knee room for the driver.
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written by Dave, June 22, 2008
The Prius could do a lot better on front seat legroom without increasing the size of the car. Trim the dash back to give taller drivers reasonable knee room. I'm not just talking comfort; it's literally undriveable for me.
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written by Eddy De Clercq, September 02, 2008
Hi,
I'm eagerly waiting for the new version and hopefully it's more efficient than the current one. As mentioned in this blog, a BMW 520d Efficient Dynamics scores better in a test.
Eddy
I'm eagerly waiting for the new version and hopefully it's more efficient than the current one. As mentioned in this blog, a BMW 520d Efficient Dynamics scores better in a test.
Eddy
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written by L.D. Freitas, November 18, 2008
Love my 2008 Prius. I would have gotten the Touring Model, but they arrived a month later, in Jan. 2008, at my local dealer. They can accelerate well, and that is surprising, especially when going uphill. I had no problem beating a v6 Passat that I was racing up a hill doing 75-80 mph. Generally I get 43 mpg, and that's with nearly 11,000 miles driven. Originally i was getting 40, and then it bounced up to 43 when I had about 6,000 miles on it.
I'm looking forward to getting another one when my three year lease is up in two years.
Generally I'm getting 43 MPH.
I'm looking forward to getting another one when my three year lease is up in two years.
Generally I'm getting 43 MPH.
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written by RJ, November 25, 2008
I would appreciate a bigger Prius. I am over 6'1 inches tall. While I find the current Prius comfortable, there is a 2-3 hour limit. I do a lot of driving and would appreciate slightly bigger version. I not average 46-50 mpg.
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written by Bill Z, May 26, 2009
In a time of diminishing expectations the Prius improvements are not impressive or important. It is still a great car, more room and can haul just about anything except a ton of gravel. Toyota should make the seats more comfortable and ergonomic and electic. I would love to see some seriously comfy seats with dial-a-zone comfort settings. Why have all this high tech without comfort. And please they could have put better speakers in them. What's the point of driving a computer if the speakers suck?
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written by Satya, June 06, 2009
When I was ready to buy my next car last year, I rented a Prius for a day to see if I seriously wanted to buy one. I loved the gas mileage (about 45 mpg) as I drove about 200 miles that day. Unfortunately, the seats killed my lower back----I was limping around for 3 days after that and was in mortal pain for the last 2 hours of the drive. Wouldn't ever consider buying one after that. Even other Toyotas, the Camry, too, which used to better designed for comfort, has now lowered their comfort ratio. My neighbor has a newer Toyota Camry--2007---and she has had to make major modifications (cushions/pillows) for the driver's seat. I do think the lowered comfortability is one reason Toyota's sales are dropping as well.
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