MAY 23

Why is it that so many are so quick to sell this country out by always lying or at the very least stretching the truth about Foreign made Cars?

The Prius actually gets less than 40 MPG in real life driving. No Prius in this country will ever achieve 71 MPG. This article is mostly a shill for Toyota, who has been woefully behind in electric drive technology. The Chevy Volt, on the other hand, will achieve an MPG of over 300 during commuting and many other driving regimes. It will use about 20 times less gasoline than the Prius uses and about 1/10th the gasoline Toyota's very modest plug-in (with obsolete NiMH batteries and a pitiful 8 mile dring range). Toyota is grossly exaggerating the effect of the Prius in terms of carbon emissions. And 450 M tons is a drop in the bucket in terms of carbon emissions. It only sounds iimpressive to those with almost total ignorance of the global emission picture.

All of this is based on EPA dynamometer testing, where tailpipe emissions under unrealistic conditions prevail. To be fair, the Prius, is only a little better than comparatively-sized conventional vehicles in real driving conditions. The only condition where the Prius might do better is in stoplight-to-stoplight city traffic that exploits its regenerative braking.

Check out a light diesel, like the VW/Audi 1.9L TDI for REAL fuel economy. I get a consistent 44 MPG city / 48 MPG Highway with an '06 New Beetle Diesel with DSG automatic transmission.

I heard somewhere that the mining, shipping, and refining of the nickel for the NiMH batteries adds more CO2 emissions than can ever be saved with increased mileage.

I really like the Prius, but from a CO2 perspective, it might not be much better than a regular car

The nickel mining story is a crock, essentially made up by someone trying to prove that an 8,000 lb Hummer is better for the environment than a 2,800 lb Prius. There's more nickel used in the body and engine of the Hummer than in the batteries of the Prius.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/article/1010861_prius-versus-hummer-exploding-the-myth

Consumer Reports actual driving results:
Real city driving (i.e. Boston): 35mpg
Highway driving: 50mpg

Why does it only get 40-56mpg? The darn 1988-91 CRX HF got that 20 years ago! It was only a two seater, but why are we going backwards?

I wouldn't get excited until it hit 100mpg.

Why pay $10k extra for all these hybrids that don't get many more miles per gallon?

450M, or 4.5M? Feh! The Environment cares not of your number system.

Carbon, or carbon dioxide? No matter, it's a headline. C'mon y'all, let's all make up headlines! It'll be a blast!!

the 71mpg and 100mpg numbers quoted in the article are from the japanese "EPA" testing. the 100 MPG number for the plug-in prius is based on real-world numbers. clearly the japanese EPA test is much less demanding than the american test, and the american test gives inflated numbers for the prius.

a non plug-in prius gets 45-50MPG in highway traffic, but can get as much as 70MPG when driven in the city.

48MPG in a diesel is not really that much to write home about. the amount of energy in a gallon of diesel is more than that in a gallon of gasoline. diesel is 131k btu/gal, and regular gasoline is 115k btu/gal. so you have to scale the diesel MPGs to 88% to get equivalent gasoline MPG... 48MPG in a diesel = 42MPG in a gasoline engine. ever noticed that a gallon of diesel costs about $5 in california right now vs. $4 for a gallon of gas?

i have driven my prius 90 miles per day at highway speeds, and i have averaged 49.2MPG over the last 2.5 years.

how is 49MPG only a "little" better than comparatively-sized conventional vehicles? can you find me a non-hybrid camry that gets 44MPG? that's 10% less. i'd consider 10% that "a little".

i'd say you would be hard pressed to find a 4-door car that can hold 4/5 adults that gets even a combined 30MPG.

The comment above that other cars (ex. light diesel, etc) are as good because the mpg is close, misses the fact that the Prius not only has high miles-per-gallon, but also has low emissions. The Japanese deserve the praise for leading this green push. The GM Volt looks great, but so slow to hit the market.

Chevy Volt? I'll believe it when I see it riding down the road. Detroit (or what used to be Detroit) is always big on promises but seldom delivers. It wows with prototypes and "cars of the future" but when it comes down to offering an affordable, well-made car that gets great mileage, it falls flat; especially when compared with foreign offerings. I gave up on American carmakers a long time ago, as have many others.

I agree with K.C. I'll believe the Volt when I see it. Right now GM is saying 2010, but that doesn't appear to be firm. Plus the price was originally planned to be around $35K, but now we're hearing $40K. Toyota deserves alot of credit for the Prius (whether or not the Japanese gov't helped) - its been out now in one form or another for 10 years.

To the commenter bashing the prius and praising the volt, the car is not even made yet. Prius results are real and that is actual MPG. Prius is not a plugin so all results are from gas inputs. Volt is a PEV or range extended EV. For the first 40-50 miles it is all electric so it still uses energy. If you want to claim 300 or infinite MPG you could but it does not mean anything. Volt may be great but you might as well compare todays high end computer with one from 2010-2011. Wow, todays computers suck, they are 5 times slower than those from 2011 and take more energy. What are surprise?!

Do you think the leader in the industry is standing idle while GM spends a few billion trying to catch up?

Toyota has no competitive pressure in this space, they are just waiting to drop the hammer and could have PEV releasing in 2009 if they wanted. Let's wait and see what Toyota will have to put up against the volt in 2010 or 2011 and decide a winner by units sold.

GM is losing over a billion dollars a month. Toyota is making money. GM is a joke but if you belive in American car companies buy some stock and show your support... just don't be surprised when you lose your investment and the Japanese companes continue to take market share and produce a superior product for a superior price that American consumers continue to demand.

I can't help thinking if the manufacture of the extra components, batteries and all the like don't also contribute to CO2. All the energy used to make these extra components comes from manufacture, which uses energy.

Hybrids might be a marketing farce.

All you anti-Prius people are in denial. $12 a gallon gas is coming, and you all better be prepared for pay for the costs of your ignorance. You will pay more for food or send your neighbors and relatives to die in the Middle East. Probably both, and worse.

Prius isn't the answer, but you guys should have better solutions than simply bashing a car.

The additional manufacturing inputs in producing hybrid cars is pretty trivial - just think about it rationally a Prius weighs 2900 lbs, while even the Camry (with comparable interior space) weighs 3300 lbs. That's 10% more material, regardless of where it's coming from.

Also, numerous life cycle studies have found that, in general 70-90% of energy used in a car comes from its in-use cycle. Roughly 10% comes from manufacturing, and the rest comes from disposal, distribution, etc...

So you're going to compare the Volt -- a vehicle that doesn't yet exist as a saleable vehicle -- to the Prius -- which has been on sale, and improving steadily for 10 years?
Give me a break. I went shopping for a cross over vehicle the other day? Ford's Edge -- the 2008 model -- is rated for 13MPG! In this day and age, how can they be making a vehicle that ridiculously inefficient? Are they so far out of touch with their customers, that they can't even try to hold a candle to Toyota?!

Get real, I'd love to keep buying American, but unless they get that Volt out the door sometime soon, my next purchase will be a Prius...

Where the ore for the batteries is mined is important. Where the ore is shipped to is important. Where the batteries are shipped is important. Where the car is shipped to is important. EMF's produced by electric motors are important. The number of parts is a car is important. The useful life of an engine is import. A TDI engine has a much longer lifespan and fewer parts.

I think most people want to do the right thing. But what is that? When I read the article and read the post, it really doesn't help and just makes it more difficult to figure out what is the right car to buy. After visiting Ford and GM dealors who didn't have any hybrids or information at the dealship. Compaired to the Toyota dealor who had all three hybrid instock and didn't have to talk to the "MAN" in the back room about pricing and interest rates, made the experience a whole lot better. I still am not sure of the current hybrids and feel it’s a marketing fad, that really doesn’t help the environment but makes the dealors look green.

The Prius is a great start in the right direction. I get 48-50mpg under real-world driving conditions with some city and highway driving, with the A/C on! It easily doubled my economy versus my previous car, a modest 4 cylinder Saturn. That is a much more tangible impact than the un-released Volt which GM hopes to sell for around twice the price. In 2010.

-oz

Do any of you own a Prius? Guess not. I've had one for over 3 years. 48-52 MPG. Yep. In Colorado. Summer, winter, whatever. I try not to drive with a lead foot, which is good in a Prius or a Suburban. I like Suburbans too, but I'm glad I don't need to have one right now. Is the Prius the final answer? I hope not, since making batteries isn't all that green either. But...you have to start somewhere, and buying a Prius does a teeny little bit to convince car companies to try something different.

Add my wife to the list of new buyers. Especially with the price of gas. Friends have the prius as well and love it!

http://trade24-7.com/alternativeenergy/
Prius may not be the answer but I agree you have to start somewhere and energy costs are getting out of hand.

I remember when Toyota first started selling the Prius in the US several years ago. They were losing money on every sale and being bashed by Detroit. The 3rd generation Prius will be for sale within 2 or 3 years.

Lets see how long GM stands behind their Volt when every sale loses money for them.

Will they be willing to hold out for several years and take the losses or will they cut and run like they did with the EV1/Impulse electric car ?

By the way, according to this article, Ford is capping their production of hybrid Escapes because it doesn't make enough profit for the company.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/16/why-is-ford-only-building-25-000-hybrid-escapes-and-mariners-thi/

As a hybrid owner- I know they arent a perfect solution (im sure if i did nothing but walk- some idiot would complain that i was wearing Nikes- made in a foreign country by kids!). But they are the best solution we have NOW!!!!

Also dont forget when reading articles from non-USA sources- the rest of the world uses litres/100km and even if they do use 'mpg' the British gallon and the US gallon are different sizes. This means that the same cars sold in Canada dont get better mileage than their US counterparts simply because your Government EPA tester is fat. ;D

1 million Prius sold to 1 million smug a-holes.

Save up and get a tesla, no gas needed and they can keep up with traffic.

:P

And 450 M tons is a drop in the bucket in terms of carbon emissions. It only sounds iimpressive to those with almost total ignorance of the global emission picture

Unfortunately, nobody has noticed how clueless you really are. The headline with 450M tons is incorrect. It's 4.5 M tons in the article. 450 M tons would really be very impressive, considering that the global yearly emissions are a few thousand M tons.

The Prius actually gets less than 40 MPG in real life driving.

I own a Prius and get usually more than 50 mpg.

Just a quick note for those who are arguing that we could have a high MPG car without hybrid technology.

Technically, you are correct. Hybrid technology does add weight, cost, and energy spent in manufacturing to the car. However, it also allows for high mileage while retaining many of the features that people have come to expect in modern cars.

True, we could easily make a pure gas-powered car that would get more MPG than the Prius, similar cars from the 1980s. But only if you're willing to sacrifice AC/heating, sound system, power windows, power steering, power braking, side and passenger airbags, and frame strength by using a lighter but weaker alloy in areas.

That car can easily be made, but frankly, no one would want to drive it. It wouldn't be comfortable or safe, and even worse, because no one would buy it, it wouldn't make the same impact the Prius has. The manufacturer would likely abandon it, and we'd be back where we started.

Like many have already said, hybrids are not a perfect or permanent solution, but they are a big step in the right direction, and I wish other manufacturers would wake up and invest in their own (and our) futures.

I own two Priuses (Prii?). 45 mgp on the 2002 model and 50 mpg on the 2006 model, but it is the very low emissions that is the real story.

They are great cars. They fit the bill for all of us today. Buy one and us it.

Have had a Prius since 2003 (it is a 2002). Love it. Have put on over 150k miles. Sometimes with kayaks strapped on top. My daughter wants it for college. My husband is not a lead foot and gets 55 mpg pretty regularly. I get 48. We get the least on long road trips to Oklahoma, etc. Are they the best answer? No. But they are a step in the right direction. We are consumers and we vote with our $$$. One million sold, is Detroit paying attention now? I think so.

Cars should run off of cow blood. We could all eat hamburgers and fill up our cars at the same place.

Detroit will not produce a car without a gasoline engine. The secondary parts and fluids market make up to 70% of the automakers annual revenues. The General Motors EV1 plug in Saturn perfected almost 10 years ago only needed windshield wiper blades after 50,000 miles. They crushed every car to eliminate the threat to profits. Now you see hybrids with both the gasoline engine (replacement parts market) and fuel efficient electric motors. Profits not ethics are the only motivator to a conscience free corporation.

that headline is ridiculous!

ahahahha hiiiiiiiiiiii

any sort of hybrid car cost to much for most people, I have no problem getting up to 40 mpg on my honda accord '05, I try to get good mpg most people dont they just go off what the car says it gets.

Quit bashing the Volt. It gets infinite miles to the gallon and produces zero emissions, because IT DOES NOT EXIST. Talk about marketing hype! Ooooh GM you are sooo green!!!

Get 50 MPG in my Prius, costs $30-$35 to fill up about every week and a half and produces low emissions.

Assuming $4 a gallon, which is pretty reasonable right now, and 40 mpg for a standard you would have to drive your plug in more than 150,000 miles to pay off the $10k upgrade. Even A123 batteries which are at the cutting edge would need to be replaced far before this. Meaning that financially this upgrade does not make sense. For hybrids to become financially logical they need to be MUCH cheaper.

Wow there are a lot of ignorant bashers in this thread. I own a 2006 Prius and I average 52 mpg in city driving. It's the best car I have ever owned. To get less than 40 mpg in a Prius one must really drive like a retarded asshole. Highway driving? I usually manage to catch an 18-wheeler cruising at 65 mph, stay right behind in the wind tunnel and get 65 to 75 mpg.

written by Ralph , May 23, 2008
Why is it that so many are so quick to sell this country out by always lying or at the very least stretching the truth about Foreign made Cars?
================

No one is stretching the truth. The prius gets the most MPG of any car in the US and by at least 10mpg over #2.

American carmakers are still tied to oil companies' asses and won't sell good mpg cars. Our cars are still stagnant from where they were in the 70s. Yet foreign car makers are steadily producing better and better cars. Specifically Toyota.

Oh, and after 10 years I guaruntee we've saved a hell of a lot more than 4.5M tons of CO2. Still, it's a hell of a lot!

And the volt is a piece of crap shill produced by GM. The EV1 was a hell of a lot better...

In 1968 I had a Renault R-10 that got over 50 miles per gallon. Wish I still had it. It was a great car! The automotive industry could do this TODAY for all vehicles, but the petroleum monopilies and the government won't allow it.

I bought the cheap version. $20,700.00. No backup camera, DVD or heated mirrors. Still well worth it. Doubles my 2006 Chevy Colorado. (4 cyclinder.) I bought my Prius in Novermber of 2007. Had my pick. And haggled my price. Now? Forget the cheap version. Many dealers will push the "package" version. 3 to 6 thousand dollars more. All because you waited too long. With 4 dollar a gallon gas? From empty? Cost me $46.00 to fill it. At the beginning? Cost me $32.00. You know how Cheney's criminal buddies are operating. (If you don't? You're living on another planet.)
If those Neo's attack Iran? Look for TEN DOLLAR A GALLON GAS!
When do you think us American's will act? I'd say at $5.00 a gallon. People will hit the streets. I won't blame them. Blame your SELECTED ones.
>:(

My 2008 Prius gets 60 MPG on local trips and 53 MPG on longer highway based trips (60 MPG speed limit). I couldn't be any happier with it. It's a fun car to drive and it is very economical. A lot of people simply don't understand the car and come up with comments like "doesn't it run on corn ?", "where do you plug it in ?", "doesn't it cost more to maintain ?". No, No and No ! Before anybody makes fun of the car, they really need to drive one themselves and they will be sold. Of course now you have up to a one year wait for one because of demand, depending on what model you are looking for.

Happy 2008 Prius package # 6 owner and proud of it !!!

The fact remains that they sell many more gas guzzling Tundras and Sequoias. These two are not among fuel economy leader in their own class either. You say Prius saves 450 M Tons of Carbon. I say their larger truck and suv kills that gain. Toyota has no plans to get rid of the Tundra or Sequoia. From the looks of it improving their fuel economy is not on the to do list either.

i wonder if people who buy a toyota prius really want to help "save the earth" or if they buy it to rid themselves of a guilty conscience.

if i had a hummer, but used it to vanpool five or six people to work a day, am i creating less carbon "per person mile" than someone who commutes the same distance in a prius but with no additional passengers?

where do you really draw the line? is there some magic moral threshold in "miles per gallon" that makes one person green and the other an environmental villain?

let's face it. no one wants to give up the luxuries and modern day amenities we have. people can be green as long as they dont have to sacrifice anything. and toyota provides this option with their prius.

if you guys really want to save the earth take the bus.

jeff

f those Neo's attack Iran? Look for TEN DOLLAR A GALLON GAS!
When do you think us American's will act? I'd say at $5.00 a gallon. People will hit the streets. I won't blame them. Blame your SELECTED ones.