JUN 06

EnerDel, a car battery company, predicts that advances in lithium ion batteries in development now will significantly cut the cost of hybrid cars, so folks who buy their hybrid now could see their gas savings in as little as two years. According

I think you have this a little mixed up. Shouldn't it be, "folks who wait to buy their hybrid"? After all, the current hybrids do not have the new battery technology you are talking about and they won't until at least 2010.

There's little doubt that gas prices, new battery technologies, etc, will lead to the prominence of all-electric cars. What I question is how much this really will benefit the environment.

Even electric cars get their power from fossil fuel plants (usually). The real "green" part is that they are so energy-efficient, because they have to be. Once the battery technology advances, you'll see the electric sports cars and trucks burning up power as usual. Our gas dependency will be gone, but that's all.

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CU did a study of Prius payback and then restudied it to get it right, and found the Prius payback is 5 years at about $3.25/gal! This is not to mention the very very low emissions benefit with this PZEV.

Detroit why you flat footed again?

I've been a fan of the site for a long time... and it seems to me that any advancement in fuel savings or car tech is post dated until 2010. Seems odd to me. Anybody else see this trend?

JP, you're not the only one who's noticed it. It does seem to be something of a running gag at this point.

Ok, the 7 year Prius payback comment really annoyed me. This is FUD presented by those who refuse to buy into the hybrid movement (not surprisingly it came from wsj). Yes, if you're seriously upside-down on your current car you'll be in for a rough trade-in, but for many people (especially those driving suvs), the trade-in shock wont be any worse than hitting the pump for several more years. Face it, gas prices are not going to get better, neither are the resale value of gas guzzling cars and suvs.

As for the payback on the Prius, the resale value is *extremely* high, and, at least here on the east coast, Toyota is aggressively trying to buy back cars for their certified pre-owned program. Based on the offers we've had on our Prius it's possible to walk away cleanly from your new Prius only a year and a half after purchase. Few if any cars come any where near this.

The wsj article (and similar articles) are disappointing. It's unfortunate, but the average person doesn't seem able or willing to think for themselves, and this type of information is taken as fact. I still know idiots driving suvs crying to me about gas prices, wtf this is not a new development. Even worse some have sited the cost of the Prius, when further discussion unveiled their gas expense per-month is *more* than a month payment on a new Prius.

Anyway money aside I know hybrids aren't a perfectly green solution (though a step the right direction imo). My wife works and drives the Prius, I'm self-employed and drive around 500 miles a year, so we're doing good I think.

Debate about the $ payback issue aside, if you buy a Prius today you'll make an immediate impact on both your carbon footprint and the amount of other hydrocarbons, NO2, SO2, etc. that you emit every mile.

Does anyone know much about how much value these batteries have at the end of their cycle life. If most of the battery can be reconditioned to create new batteries there should be a good refund program in place to offset the initial purchase of the batteries.

Why is it studies like this always use the Global Average? The Global Average includes 3rd world countries that are starving and have various other problems. Do they really think that comparing 1st and 3rd world countries is a valid comparison? Let me know when they start comparing the U.S. to other 1st world countries such as those in Europe, Russia and Japan.

I'm pretty sure you can't just "Recondition" batteries and expect them to be anywhere as good as new.

You'll eventually have to replace the battery packs, no matter what the technology being used. The pack also degrades with driving conditions and temperatures.

Overall I do feel they are better than all gas vehicles.

I really wish the gov. would get off it’s @ss and help out here. We can change over car plants to make tanks in less than 6 months(oh wait that was a long time ago) but we can’t figure out how to get off of oil in 30 years?

One last thing… most good ideas are getting bought up by the big oil companies….and I wonder why?