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A new green project called Honolulu Seawater Air Conditioning (HSWAC) proposes to cool down buildings with seawater, rather than fossil fuel-based air conditioning units, and it is getting some serious green to back it. Private investors have put up nearly $11 M, completing the funding effort for the $152 M project, with about half of the final funding coming from investors from
The system will pump cool water, about 45° F, from 1,600 feet below the ocean waves. The water will travel through the pump system to an onshore station where it will cool fresh water that circulates in a closed loop through customers’ buildings in downtown
I’m also curious as to what fuel is going to be used to power the system. Hopefully they’ll take a hint from the newly required solar-powered water heaters and go renewable with the system. Regardless, the savings potential is astounding.
Via TreeHugger, Renewable Energy World; Photo via lrargerich
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written by The Food Monster, July 11, 2008
http://thefoodmonsterblog.blogspot.com
I think should the project work, it will start something to work on most major sea cities. Especially the more northern ones. San Diego would have access to cold enough water for this project. It wouldn't take too much more to pump it a few extra feet, the shelf only goes out so far. Pretty neat, and glad to see the cost of living in Hawaii dropping.
I think should the project work, it will start something to work on most major sea cities. Especially the more northern ones. San Diego would have access to cold enough water for this project. It wouldn't take too much more to pump it a few extra feet, the shelf only goes out so far. Pretty neat, and glad to see the cost of living in Hawaii dropping.
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written by Al Scagnetti, July 11, 2008
Is there a way to siphon the water up since it's being returned to the ocean? I'm no physics wiz, so I'll assume not.
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written by tussock, July 12, 2008
Siphon: no, siphoning works by gravitational potential and pressure differential. You have to finish lower than you started without facing a correspondingly higher pressure as you would under the ocean.
You can get free pumping by dropping water down deep underground in a U pipe, it'll heat up and flow right back up to you, free heating for the winter (after you've dug and sealed some very deep holes). Making cold water rise requires you input some energy.
There's cheaper options still, you can drive surface air up through a tall building for free by opening a sealed path from ground level to the roof. That moving air will cool the building, but you have to build with that in mind to make it cool fairly evenly. For more cooling, you just open the doors wider at both ends.
And no, storms won't be a problem for this Hawaiian project. Wave action only goes down by about the height of the waves, so you only have to strengthen the part that's facing those surface effects, which has been done with oil pipelines for a long time. All they need's a stable slope to attach the pipes to under the water, and a way to keep the input unclogged.
You can get free pumping by dropping water down deep underground in a U pipe, it'll heat up and flow right back up to you, free heating for the winter (after you've dug and sealed some very deep holes). Making cold water rise requires you input some energy.
There's cheaper options still, you can drive surface air up through a tall building for free by opening a sealed path from ground level to the roof. That moving air will cool the building, but you have to build with that in mind to make it cool fairly evenly. For more cooling, you just open the doors wider at both ends.
And no, storms won't be a problem for this Hawaiian project. Wave action only goes down by about the height of the waves, so you only have to strengthen the part that's facing those surface effects, which has been done with oil pipelines for a long time. All they need's a stable slope to attach the pipes to under the water, and a way to keep the input unclogged.
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written by Clinch, July 12, 2008
Seeing as they're putting stuff in the ocean anyway, I wonder if they could use those wave-powered rubber snake things to power it as well.
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written by Brent, July 12, 2008
Too me, this seems like an awful lot of trouble. Why don't they just use heat exchangers and take advantage of constant ground temps? It's a proven technology, and would, I think, require a lot less infrastructure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_cooling_tubes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_cooling_tubes
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written by Anders Thorseth, July 12, 2008
@Brent
Some would argue that a volcanic island would be a unlikely place to look for coolness under ground. You need a lot of area for the cooling tubes, if not you are just going to heat up the ground, it would seem that Hawaii have more ocean then ground, so I would think that this is a good approach .
Some would argue that a volcanic island would be a unlikely place to look for coolness under ground. You need a lot of area for the cooling tubes, if not you are just going to heat up the ground, it would seem that Hawaii have more ocean then ground, so I would think that this is a good approach .
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written by Watch Britney Spears real SEX VIDEO, July 12, 2008
Attention... CLICK "NAME"... ;)
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written by Jane Doe, July 12, 2008
This has been done in Toronto for a while now...
http://www.toronto.ca/environment/initiatives/cooling.htm
http://tinyurl.com/5t7klw
http://www.toronto.ca/environment/initiatives/cooling.htm
http://tinyurl.com/5t7klw
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written by Mike Caprio, July 12, 2008
Now Hawaii just needs to exclusively move to electric cars, and the islands will be oil and gasoline free!
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written by oneOff, July 12, 2008
Right...except that this article says that the HSWAC program will reduce electricity needs for AC by 20%, not completely. Also, switching to electric cars wouldn't make the islands oil and gasoline free, as the electric power must still be generated by burning fossil fuels...so the combustion process is really just moved from a bunch of cars to a relatively few large electric plants.
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written by jhw539, July 12, 2008
Brent,
If they started pumping 25,000 tons of heat (300 million btu/hr) into the ground it would absolutely not remain at a constant temperature, it would heat up in short order (unless your field was massive, we're talking square miles). Earth tubes work when you need cooling sometimes and heating other times - you are not 'pulling cooling out of the ground,' you are storing heat in there during the summer and pulling it out in the winter. If you never need heating (Hawaii), the ground around the tubes would heat up in a matter of year and the system would be worthless. This is basic design information for ground coupled systems, but it took several failed systems in the early days to get it.
If they started pumping 25,000 tons of heat (300 million btu/hr) into the ground it would absolutely not remain at a constant temperature, it would heat up in short order (unless your field was massive, we're talking square miles). Earth tubes work when you need cooling sometimes and heating other times - you are not 'pulling cooling out of the ground,' you are storing heat in there during the summer and pulling it out in the winter. If you never need heating (Hawaii), the ground around the tubes would heat up in a matter of year and the system would be worthless. This is basic design information for ground coupled systems, but it took several failed systems in the early days to get it.
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written by Brian J. Anderson, July 12, 2008
GPA (Guam Power Authority) here in Guam is reviewing alternative power sources to convert as current fuel generators have maximum 7 years more life. Cold water system appears to be winner for Hawaii and would be great option here too (Aside Marianas Trench). Anything away from Fuel Oil or Coal Fire sounds like winner to me.
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written by Tristan, July 12, 2008
Jane, it was in Halifax many years prior to going to upper canada.
Our harbour is "only" 72m deep so im sure all the shallow water cities wouldnt have to go too far offshore to get cold water.
Our harbour is "only" 72m deep so im sure all the shallow water cities wouldnt have to go too far offshore to get cold water.
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written by James Dean, July 13, 2008
Nice, there is surely no shortage of seawater in Hawaii! LOL
www.FireMe.To/udi
www.FireMe.To/udi
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written by yea ok, July 13, 2008
Now Hawaii just needs to exclusively move to electric cars, and the islands will be oil and gasoline free!
nice pipe dream. too bad the electricity comes from diesel in most places.
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written by John C. Randolph, July 13, 2008
I've heard of an earlier ocean thermal project that used deep water for a heat sink like this, and their aim was to generate electricity by using a low-pressure turbine system. It didn't break even on power alone, but the deep water was ideal for growing abalone in tanks, so on the whole the project was in the black. Wish I could remember where that was.
-jcr
-jcr
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written by Caddy, July 13, 2008
I think that it is great that other resources are being thought up to try and save the planet. We need to do somehing. I do have one question though. What temperature is the water being put back into the ocean? If colder water goes into the city to cool it down, the temp. of the water going in has to be warmer. What long term effects on the sealife will this have? Will it make the ocean temperature to rise at an even higher rate than they already are?
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written by Ken Roberts, July 13, 2008
To Caddy,
That's why the water was being replaced at higher elevations. Water is warmer near the surface, where it absorbs heat from the sun.
That's why the water was being replaced at higher elevations. Water is warmer near the surface, where it absorbs heat from the sun.
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written by Ken, July 13, 2008
The water around San Diego is plenty cold enough to use for a project like this. At 100' the water is about 50 degrees. There is a very deep canyon and the deeper you go the colder it gets. There are some days when all that cold water gets stirred up from the bottom and comes into the shore. It could be 100 degrees outside but, the water is about 63. I've scuba dived off the coast of San Diego and 7mm wetsuits (or dry suits) are common protection from the cold.
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written by kate, July 13, 2008
There really isn't enough information on this article, but pumping "warm" water back into already rising temperature seas sounds like potential trouble. First it's not just cold water, what about the organisms in the water which are neutralized by being warmed up and dumped back into the sea. Or what if they survive and are placed in a second spot, where none of these species have been before. I would be interested to see the environmental impact data on this idea.
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written by michael hammerschlag, July 14, 2008
OCEAN THERMAL ENERGY CONVERSION
I interviewed the director in 97 or 98 and had a tour of the plant, which made a little power by boiling very low pressure warm water and cooling it with the cold sea water 2000 ft down. They offered that for cooling to the many mega-luxury resorts along the west coast of Big Is. but they were so in thrall to their sweetheart contracts with air conditioner co. that they turned it down. They used cold water to grow strawberries and a few other things.
The Big Is also had the first big NOA windmills and geothermal plants, the latter of which I also toured.
I interviewed the director in 97 or 98 and had a tour of the plant, which made a little power by boiling very low pressure warm water and cooling it with the cold sea water 2000 ft down. They offered that for cooling to the many mega-luxury resorts along the west coast of Big Is. but they were so in thrall to their sweetheart contracts with air conditioner co. that they turned it down. They used cold water to grow strawberries and a few other things.
The Big Is also had the first big NOA windmills and geothermal plants, the latter of which I also toured.
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written by michael hammerschlag, July 14, 2008
OCEAN THERMAL ENERGY CONVERSION
I interviewed the director in 97 or 98 and had a tour of the plant, which made a little power by boiling very low pressure warm water and cooling it with the cold sea water 2000 ft down. They offered that for cooling to the many mega-luxury resorts along the west coast of Big Is. but they were so in thrall to their sweetheart contracts with air conditioner co. that they turned it down. They used cold water to grow strawberries and a few other things.
The Big Is also had the first big NOA windmills and geothermal plants, the latter of which I also toured.
I interviewed the director in 97 or 98 and had a tour of the plant, which made a little power by boiling very low pressure warm water and cooling it with the cold sea water 2000 ft down. They offered that for cooling to the many mega-luxury resorts along the west coast of Big Is. but they were so in thrall to their sweetheart contracts with air conditioner co. that they turned it down. They used cold water to grow strawberries and a few other things.
The Big Is also had the first big NOA windmills and geothermal plants, the latter of which I also toured.
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written by cs, July 15, 2008
Regarding the rise in seawater temps, it's more or less analogous to peeing in a river. The amount of water used in this process, which rises maybe 10-15K tops, is minute compared to what's around. Toronto and the Cornell University campus have been doing this for years and all they have is "merely" a lake for water. Neither have (reportedly) had any issues with the temperature rise, since as noted in another comment, the water is returned at a level where the return temperature is found anyways. And so long as the openings are large enough such that the velocity is low enough for fish, etc, to swim away, impingement is minimal. Especially when you compare these systems to ones that require 4-5X the electricity and the world-wide damage that causes, these things are absolutely a great idea wherever they can find somewhat cool water to use.
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written by jim, July 20, 2008
Good idea. Seattle could benefit as well. There is plenty of cold water available--right on the shoreline.
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written by Dustin, July 21, 2008
I wonder how they are addressing the pipe scale issues caused by circulating seawater?
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written by mike, July 21, 2008
Toronto has had this for a while now, and they are just completing the retro-fit of their old city hall (which is ancient and currently has window mounted a/c units)
http://www.theenvironmentalage.com/blog/2008/07/torontos-deep-l.html
http://www.theenvironmentalage.com/blog/2008/07/torontos-deep-l.html
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written by lily, July 24, 2008
This sounds like a very good idea, but are they sure it will not effect the ocean at all?
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written by Mike Caprio, July 25, 2008
Electricity can come from solar panels, wind turbines (lots of wind on the islands), solar heating of water into steam, thermal transfer from the ocean... and oh, DUH, "Mr. yea ok" how about GEOTHERMAL ENERGY FROM VOLCANOES. Hawaii has more options than most places for alternative electricity generation. And it's not like the islands are very big in the first place, so people don't need to go long distances in vehicles. Why ship oil/gasoline to Hawaii from all over the world when they could just run a fleet of electric cars completely powered by renewable energy?
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written by michael hammerschlag, October 03, 2008
They had a little geothermal plant on the east side of the Big Island, and there were many scare stories about a blowout, when they evacuated residents; so when they wanted to build a huge plant downhill from the Pu-u-o-o volcano, locals killed it, saying "you will make Madame Pele angry". So they ended up building an oil fired plant, which then was 3 times the mainland price.
I toured the little demo plant and all the wellhead did was make a small whine standing on it. They had to do nothing- just drill a hole and water table water that hit the lava at 500-1000ft or so would come blasting out as superheated steam- incredible endless energy supplies. The 1 house near that I asked, had to leave for 12 hours due to some gas emmissions once. That is the biggest and highest mountain in the world 32,000 ft from the bottom and 1000 miles wide at the base, 100miles wide and 13,700ft high out above water and it all came up through 21,000ft of water! Longest continuously erupting volcano in human history (since 1982). Don't think Madame Pele would have noticed, but I thought then this is the ultimate NIMBY idiocy.
It also is spectacularly dangerous- the eastern 4th along the volcanic fault rift could peal off in a cataclysmic landslide, which has happened in the past. That would make 200ft tidal waves? along the West Coast- on conical Lanai the brown bathtub ring from a previous event sits up at 800ft.
I toured the little demo plant and all the wellhead did was make a small whine standing on it. They had to do nothing- just drill a hole and water table water that hit the lava at 500-1000ft or so would come blasting out as superheated steam- incredible endless energy supplies. The 1 house near that I asked, had to leave for 12 hours due to some gas emmissions once. That is the biggest and highest mountain in the world 32,000 ft from the bottom and 1000 miles wide at the base, 100miles wide and 13,700ft high out above water and it all came up through 21,000ft of water! Longest continuously erupting volcano in human history (since 1982). Don't think Madame Pele would have noticed, but I thought then this is the ultimate NIMBY idiocy.
It also is spectacularly dangerous- the eastern 4th along the volcanic fault rift could peal off in a cataclysmic landslide, which has happened in the past. That would make 200ft tidal waves? along the West Coast- on conical Lanai the brown bathtub ring from a previous event sits up at 800ft.
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written by Mr. Ravesak, February 18, 2009
Dear Manager
I am from 2PT. Company, a leading Thailand manufacture under the brand 3Q that provide high quality Cooling system ranging from water and sea water cool condenser, cooler shell & tube from 1-500 Ton, oil cooler, refrigerant part and etc. We keep long term collaboration with the leading brand and become reputation manufacture for such as York, Carrier, Set Point, Star Air, Central Air etc.
2PT provides the following Products:
Sea Water Condenser Shell & Tube
Water cool Condenser Shell & Tube
Cooler Evaporator Shell & Tube
Ammonia Condenser Shell & Tube
Heat Exchanger Shell & Tube
Oil Cooler Shell & Tube
Refrigerant Part
-Suction Accumulator
-Oil Separator
-Drier Core
-Receiver Tank
-Muffler Model
Our product are 1 year warranty
I am from 2PT. Company, a leading Thailand manufacture under the brand 3Q that provide high quality Cooling system ranging from water and sea water cool condenser, cooler shell & tube from 1-500 Ton, oil cooler, refrigerant part and etc. We keep long term collaboration with the leading brand and become reputation manufacture for such as York, Carrier, Set Point, Star Air, Central Air etc.
2PT provides the following Products:
Sea Water Condenser Shell & Tube
Water cool Condenser Shell & Tube
Cooler Evaporator Shell & Tube
Ammonia Condenser Shell & Tube
Heat Exchanger Shell & Tube
Oil Cooler Shell & Tube
Refrigerant Part
-Suction Accumulator
-Oil Separator
-Drier Core
-Receiver Tank
-Muffler Model
Our product are 1 year warranty
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I can see Hawaii going with Project Better Place someday and becoming much much more independent than they have been. Then it will truly be a paradise again.