NOV 03

This is so annoying and a common misconception that Americans and some of the rest of the world believe, that the bigger the car the safer it is... this is clearly not true... Car safety depends on a number of factors including design of force absorption crumple zones, not to mention that the reduction in momentum a small car has improves handling and breaking... this comment about car interior size has really annoyed me.

Also I feel sorry for all those people being forced to live with pollution laws written for a country as vast as the USA which will clearly never cater for all, especially with a densely populated place like NYC.

Yellow cabs should go green.
Saying that they have such a high mileage isn't an argument that they shouldn't go green, but one that they should, changing a car that runs 24 hours a day will be 24 times better than someone who only drives for an hour a day, getting a hybrid.
And considering it's NYC, where they're stuck in traffic for a long time, it would also make more of a difference than converting to a hybrid in a less built-up area.

So while I am usually against the imposition of hybrid vehicles on people, this is one case where hybrids make perfect sense.

Saying that the reasoning behind this decision is that hybrid vehicles can't stand up to the wear and tear experienced by cabs is utter crap. NYC-based Hybrid Limo Express, whose 200 car fleet is entirely comprised of hybrids, has not experienced a single mechanical issue based on the "wear and tear" cited by the judge in its 2 years of existence. Given the fact that Judge Crotty is Bush-appointed, it may be that there real reasoning behind shooting down the hybrid requirement is oil related.

I'm a little torn on this. While I agree that the arguments about why hybrid vehicles wouldn't work is suspect and that cab companies should want to do these kinds of things on their own, I do also kindof agree that maybe the government is overstepping its bounds. Forcing legislature of this type on a single type of business is a little too much of big government even for me, and I go pretty far Left in general. I think it's okay to force companies to make a product to certain standards, but not okay to force a company to buy a certain product.

It is really terrible that the federal government isn't on the ball with this, but in my mind that doesn't make it okay for local government to go all dictator on cab companies' asses. It would be better even if it were just a law saying that all cars with New York license plates, by the year 20XX, need to conform to certain emissions standards that are probably better than what the federal government will require at that time. That doesn't target anyone in particular, force such a specific product, and obviously directly meets the goal of less pollution for a healthier city and state, which would be more easily defended in court too.

Many of the commenters here just don’t get it: the hybrid vehicles that the TLC authorized for use as cabs are not safe for the riding public, and cannot hold up to the rigors of 22 hours a day on the streets of NYC. Fleets and individual owner/operators cannot afford to replace a taxi every year, especially the more expensive hybrid models.

I believe the industry wants fuel efficient cars, but they also want safe cars, and durable cars, and cars that are actually available for them to purchase (many of the approved hybrid models were not even available from the manufacturer due to high demand).

This ruling will provide leverage to the taxi owners and operators with the automakers. Ford has a vehicle on the drawing board and now, with a basically guaranteed market of 13k vehicles every 3 years in NYC and thousands elsewhere in the country they will move ahead with manufacturing this car. Indeed it may be the only car they will be able to sell reliably as financing dries up for vehicle purchases by average Americans.

NYC deserves safe, durable, fuel efficient cars. The vehicles MUST meet all 3 criteria, not just the fuel efficiency standard.

Bloombergs headlong rush to a 30mpg mandate before the vehicles were even available almost resulted in the early replacement of thousands of crown vics with new crown vics which would have had detrimental effects. Now the fleets and individuals will be able to work with the auto industry to replace the crown vic with a purpose built fuel efficient vehicle in 09.

None of the approved hybrid models are designed to have a safety partition installed. in fact the installation of a safety partition is explicitly advised AGAINST in the owners manuals of many if not all of the approved hybrid models. None of them have been crash tested with safety partitions, and having a smaller passenger compartment with a safety partition makes it even more likely that a back seat passenger will suffer head and face injuries in the event of an accident. A larger compartment makes it less likely that a back seat passenger (wearing a seatbelt) will impact with the safety partition in the event of an accident.

The Feds crash test cars for a reason, and until a vehicle is crash tested AS CONFIGURED (meaning with a safety partition) no one can say it is safe. a prius might be a safe passenger car, that does not make it a safe taxi cab.

I disagree, this is exactly the sort of thing that local government should decide, rather than federal government, because this decision would be perfect (or at least the benefits far outweigh the for problems) for taxis in NYC, but may not be as beneficial if applied to the entire country.

Also, does any whose name doesn't begin with 'C' have an opinion on this?

I think the government should stay out of the Taxi business. If hybrids were better then they would be adopted. Until they are better the taxi business will resist.

The answer is simple and coming anyway. Make a better hybrid.

We don't have the luxury to sit around and wait for another 5 years to update the taxi fleet. There is more than just a single model of hybrid in production, if the Prius doesn't work then why not the Civic? If we're actually going to try and mitigate global warming, we can't be so lesiurely in our changes.

Or just buy hybrids from this point forward?

If they were forced to replace existing cars, then I totally agree with blocking that law. Wasting resources building new cars is not the best solution, nevermind that it could financially hurt the taxi companies.

However if the law was designed to force taxi companies to buy hybrids from this point onward - that I agree with.

Going on what Gregory said, just consider this. If there was a suitable replacement for the Taxis that met the requirements for a taxicab company, why would the not buy them? The oil industry does not own the Taxi Cabs, they have no hold over them in any way, in fact the taxi companies would love more fuel efficient vehicles, so long as they were safe and reliable. Remember, taxis operate for almost the entire day, every day for years. Your regular car gets on average two hours of driving a day. Taxis are runing for 10x as long as your regular car. This is massive wear and tear that a regular car does not get.

Someone should build and extensively test hybrid cars built exclusively for the taxi market not just go "here replace your taxi with this hybrid built for normal driving conditions."

This article is reason number 1001 why we need to restore federalism to our system of government. One size fits all policies are not in our best interest.

The last time I was in NYC, the majority of the hybrid cars were Ford Escapes. Both the Crown Vic and the Escape have passenger volumes of around 100 cubic feet. The statement that using cabs doesn't make sense because it “ignore the laws of physics, which dictates that the larger the vehicle's interior space, the safer the vehicle's occupants are in an accident.” is a completely untrue statement. In fact, the 2009 ford Escape Hybrid scored five stars in every category of the NHTSA's safety rating except rollover resistance, which is definitely not even a concern with city driving. Even if a car was significantly smaller, a vehicle's safety is not at all determined by its size. A 1980's Buick is a huge car, however I'd feel much safer in a Toyota Civic.

As for the fact that hybrids aren't tested with safety partitions, I'm not really understanding the significance of this. I understand, I guess, with a prius. However, a Ford Escape Hybrid is just a Ford Escape with a battery in the back...

Also, if places like NYC don't start to adopt new technologies like hybrids etc. then there is no hope for the country to adopt them as well. Cities like NYC should lead the way in order to show that there is a demand for hybrids and better technology.

Additionally, I have not done any calculations, however it would seem to me that the cost of upkeep of any hybrid would be balanced by its significantly improved fuel economy. Who knows why NYC taxis even need to have a 17 mpg, V8 engine to begin with. Even if they're not hybrids, someone could at least invest in more efficient cars.

I dont know where to begin with your post...but here goes:
NYC isnt the only city using hybrids for cabs. Many are using the Prius/Camry/Escape models and have been for years in the case of the Prius, with huge cost savings and no issues with safety.
'Ford has a car on the drawing board' - no clue what your point there is, we have plenty of suitable cars available now (and it takes alot longer than a year to go from drawing board to the sales lot, guaranteed sales or not). Bloomberg wanted the fleet changed to hybrids to be phased in and completed by 2012 in part based on the usual longevity of a cab(ie- you dont see to many 5 yr old cabs out there).

As for the safety partition... I dont know of a car manual that even mentions the installation of a safety partition (mind you i havent had the displeasure of owning a Town Car), but then you compare a small car and partition with no seatbelts to a large car and partition with seatbelts and claim the large car safer???? :o you just lost all credibility. I dont know if youre a troll,an import hater or a ford
employee ;D (nothing wrong with the hybrid escape!)
The only 'problem' with Bloombergs plan is the hybrid part, any fuel efficient car preferably with some kind of engine cut off when stopped should suffice. He could even mandate lower license fees for the best cars for the environment to entice cab companies to make the switch earlier.
He had the right idea, hopefully it can be tweaked alittle to get a pass from the courts.

Formula 1 pilots crashing at 200Km/h (120mph) against a wall and walking out without a scratch (most of the times), defy the laws of physics then. It's a miracle!

Although I understand the judge's point of view that there have to be a federal decisions on such issues (equality with other states, I guess), NYC is an (abnormally) large city, thus specific measures should be applied.

For many people in North America caught up in the trials and tribulations of day-to-day living, the state of the world’s climate, oceans, forests, soil, rivers, wildlife, and wetland may seem remote. Yet the basic biological reality is that humans are still utterly dependent on natural world and its ecological processes for our health, well-being, and prosperity. All humans need to breath, eat, and drink, and it’s nature that provides us with fresh air, clean water, and the ability to grow food. All humans require a reasonably hospitable climate, and the interconnected web of natural systems regulates the planet’s climate and makes life on earth viable.