MAR 23

Pretty fancy, you can build similar with coiled copper pipe on the drain pipe.

A brilliant solution, yet so simple.

We really need to see these kinds of simple, low-cost solutions immediately be integrated into building codes.

Thats so smart! When I get a house I am getting these everywhere. It would reduce heat pollution and be a million times less wasteful.

I don't now if I've heard that word before. I don't mean to nock the author, or have him neel before my superior nowledge, so stop sharpening your nives.

This is unlikely to meet code.

Any leak in the heat exchanger produces a very dangerous cross connection between the potable water supply and the contaminated drains.

Such cross connections have produced cholera epidemics in cities with modern plumbing.

Saving energy is not as important as saving lives.

Great idea. Although, if I understand correctly how it works, it would take a while for the heating effect to ramp up. So you might have to keeping adjusting the knobs down to keep the water temperature just right, which might get annoying. Still, cool idea though.


As for the hysterical impending cholera epidemic that this would cause... check the FAQ's on the manufacturer's website:
"Can the EcoDrain mix the fresh water with the waste water?
No. Both the horizontal and vertical EcoDrain have been designed with a double wall of separation between the fresh water and waste water. This double wall is vented to the atmosphere. This means that there are two walls separating the fresh water and waste water. If one wall were to pierce, the device would leak to the atmosphere. The two fluids would not mix."

@MidiMagic: You're wrong, about two things in fact. First and foremost, it's a heat exchanger, no water is transfered. If your drain leaks your downstairs neighbours might get wet, but that's no different from any other drain.
Second, a good old cholera epidemic might kill off some of this unwanted population. I'm all for it.

This is a great idea - so simple yet effective.


@MidiMagic - how dirty are you when you bathe? I generally don't cover myself with feces before each shower...

Check http://urge4lessenergy.blogspo...ature.html

This item is a knock off on others which is still not bad.

It does not (can not) preheat water to the shower only but preheats cold water to the hot water tank.

At best it may recover 25% of the energy utilized to heat the shower water - still not to sneeze at.

The cold water piping must be done from where the cold water enters the hot water tank to the shower base where the heat exchanger is located and back to the taank inlet and be well insulated to maintain the 25% savings. The 40% seems like a pipe dream to me.

Heat exchangers do leak upon occasion - like if certain cleaners are used and cause corrosion.

The problem of cross contamination comes if the clean water side has a lower pressure than the drain. In the event of a pinhole leak in the exchanger fresh cold water would be going down the drain normally.

The double wall would be very unusual in a heat exchanger as it would lower the efficiency substantially - below the 25% number. We are talking about very low grade heat here!

By the time someone paid a plumber to do it the pay back would be way out there. A do it yourselfer would do better.

All in all not anything I am interested in.

More comments after going through the Ecodrain FAQ section:

1. Hot water temperature assumed by Ecodrain to get the savings is 140 deg F - 120F is a more practical temp but would tend to spoil the party

2. The airspace between the plates which is vented to the atmosphere would stop any water cross over - however it is also an excellent insulator

3. A thermostatic valve is recommended to maintain the temperature at the shower head - another cost

4. Patents generally only need to be 'new' in the country they are registered. I guess this is new in Canada - providing the patent is granted.

5. As best I can tell the item may save you 10 cents to 15 cents US per shower - if it works well

6. The web site recommends installation by a plumber or general contractor - not cheap

Better to take a quicker (shorter) shower and reduce the hot water tank temperature.

To ross: you're wrong. As you can see at the picture here, the preheated water doesn't enter the hot-water tank at all. It just mixes with the tank water inside the shower faucet. The warmer shower you're having the warmer warmer drained water and the warmer preheated water. Since it takes time for the heat to pass through the heat exchanger, you might want to equip your shower with thermostatic faucet, quite popular here in Europe.
Great yet simple idea. Hope it'll spread quickly with no obstruction from authorities.

Why not take it one step further? Maybe it is possible to adapt the technology in such a way that you cannot only connect your shower(and/or bathtub),but also your (dish-)washing machine,all your warmwater fossets and maybe even your clothesdryer. All you would need to do is thermally isolate your drainagepipes (to prevent heatloss)and have them converge to a single point in the building where you would place one ecodrainsystem to reclaim the energy in your wastewater.Then you just pump the reclaimed energy to your hotwater system and your done.Imagine the energy saved if this kind of system would be installed in every new building (not just homes)and every old building(if possible),say during a refit or something.And imagine the savings if you connect this system with a solar boiler. You might very well become independent from gas alltogether.

Funtomas - correct about the diagram - it is a bit clearer on the ecodrain site.

I still prefer the connection to the tank as it would not affect the shower temperature while serving the same purpose.

As the ecodrain site says - this is not applicable to drains such as a dishwasher, bathtub etc where there is not a steady stream. To do those would take a heat exchanger of a type not yet designed.

Still not worth the money - check the link I gave - this guy has actually done some checking. I mean to say the money spent on energy efficiency would have more affect with other items such as solar panels or insulation or, or--

Good idea in theory a bogus idea in practice. First of all pain threshold is 110 degrees F. Second the heat exchanger would need to be extraordinarily efficient since the velocity of the water leaving you shower is a fraction of velocity of the water coming out of your shower head. Third there is all kinds of junk in the drain water; soap, shampoo, hair conditioners, hair, dead skin. This thing will clog up in no time and you will have a very expensive piece of junk under your shower. And the DIY idea is a non starter in the US. You are much better off putting your money in a solar hot water system!

I don't get this, the warmed water comes out the cold faucet, so unless I want a hot drink of water or for my tooth brushing, I have to now run this until it cools back down? I see its still a savings but now I may be wasting more water.

I installed the Evolve RoadRunner low flow shower head, with hot water cut off. Basically, it shuts off when the water is hot, and you turn it on when ready to shower, no guessing when the water is ready. This along with a 5 gallon bucket that I direct the warming water into, then use for watering my plants = near zero hot water waste.

Wouldn't simply installing a tankless hot water heater that heats water on demand, instead of one that burns to keep 50-gal of water warm at all times, save as much as this device would? It would require substantially less ripping up of the floors/walls, and is a product with a warranty. Of course, used in tandem, you'd save more, but if you were to take 1 step, I'd scrap the big tank and go tankless.

Just turn it on and free hot water!

I've seen a similar device before where they coil the two pipes around eachother.
The gain in heat in both designs is very low. This is not a realistic way to save energy. Insulating your pipes would do more to save energy.

Solar water heaters are the way to go. It's free once you buy the system.

Tankless are ok. but efficiency drops like a rock if you have hard water.

There is a similar company operating in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada called Renewability: http://www.renewability.com/
It basically uses a coiled copper pipe.

I'm also highly skeptical about this gizmo, for the general efficiency reasons others have cited.

I wish more people would insulate their water heater and pipes. It's cheap, drop dead simple, and it works very well. I have a relatively new water heater, and I did this insulating job one Saturday afternoon, and I found I had to turn down the temp on the heater noticeably to keep the hot water from being too hot. (Not an exaggeration.)

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Aeon Pi - You ask for this reply from the silly post and goofy capitalization.

Do you have flowers in your hair? An Indian guru?

Please stay far away from my neighborhood with your wordy garbage.

The term Hot Water Heater is a pet peevee of mine. If the water is already hot, Why do you need to heat it?

water hits the tub, and runs down into the sewer, and you want to know something funny

Scared of sludge build-up and cross-contamination, I want to put a tank under the bathroom floor, and make it all cozy and warm and dry with the extra heat, then dump the water once cooled, to the normal place! Neat Eh! I fancy a roof-top solar water assist on my hot water supply too! They work well and are available with written guarantees by certified insured installers! When, I get the cash together to build my "Zero Running Cost, Zero Upkeep" off-grid retirement survival shelter, every thing's going to be peachy, for now, I gotta pay "The Man" threw my nose for every little thing, just like everybody else!

Warm showers are nice, but sad they r harmful