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I live in a very windy area. Pretty much every afternoon as I ride my bike home directly into the full-force wind, I wonder how I could set up some sort of sail system so that I don’t have to pedal as hard as possible only to go about 2 miles an hour. I also think about how I can be capturing all this wind so I can power my home. In other words, because of where I live, wind is on my mind a lot. So, over the weekend I was glad to read about the WINDPOWER 2008 conference. It was the first time I’d heard about the annual conference and tradeshow and it sounded like something I’d love to attend. Well, clearly not knowing about it in the first place made attending a little difficult, but luckily the folks at Clean Tech were there and posted some video and interesting info on vertical wind turbines.
Vertical turbines have a few one-ups on the traditional three-blade turbines for urban areas like where I live. They’re quieter, blend in with a rooftop more seamlessly, take up less space, can produce 50% more electricity per year, can produce energy at lower wind speeds, and are safer for wildlife such as birds and bats.
Considering the amount of thought going in to urban turbines, I’m curious as to why vertical turbines aren’t gaining more popularity. It seems like there are myriad ways to utilize them. For instance, many cities are installing solar panels on streetlamps to generate electricity to power the lamp…but not as many are combining solar and wind. Seems like the more logical thing to do since the odds of getting enough electricity go way up. “Gus” (shown in the above image) is a turbine from Tangarie, and it has been combined with solar for streetlamps. But, I suppose when you look at the price tag, my “why” question is answered – the package runs about $7,000 and that doesn’t include the cost of installation. “Gus” creators have thought about aesthetics, and have utilized a reflective coating to reduce glare. It’s the little things like this that will help turbines gain popularity as the aesthetics are boosted and innovation is amped up.
The video below shows a design from Energy in which light metal bands surround the turbine to give it a low start-up wind speed, which allows users with a less substantial wind resource to get at least a little power from local winds. With designs like these helping people even in soft breezy environments to utilize wind, I just can’t help but wonder why not more…
Apparently vertical wind turbines are expected to grow in popularity in urban settings, but I’m surprised that it hasn’t taken off more quickly. I know I’m already geared up for how to retrofit my house to be powered by some pretty rooftop vertical axis turbines!
Via Cleantechnica
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written by Carl Hage, June 25, 2008
Power is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the turbine-- the square of the diameter for the usual propeller style, so a 100ft rotor gives 4 times the power of a 50ft rotor. With a vertical axis, it's hard to get much area. A 1ft by 4ft vertical axis turbine would only get about 1/3 the output of a 4ft diameter rotor. Scale up to 100ft diameter and you'd need 2000 small ones to equal one large one, and the large ones are much cheaper per watt.
The other problem is that power is proportional to the cube of wind speed, so at 20mph you get 125 times the power than at 4mph. So it doesn't make sense to bother with low wind speeds. The wind speed goes up dramatically with height except in certain cases like a hill-- there might be only 1/3 the power at 10m than 100m height.
Maybe cheap turbines for street light poles could be made, but you'd probably be better off putting your money into a large tall turbine outside the city.
The other problem is that power is proportional to the cube of wind speed, so at 20mph you get 125 times the power than at 4mph. So it doesn't make sense to bother with low wind speeds. The wind speed goes up dramatically with height except in certain cases like a hill-- there might be only 1/3 the power at 10m than 100m height.
Maybe cheap turbines for street light poles could be made, but you'd probably be better off putting your money into a large tall turbine outside the city.
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written by Andrew, June 25, 2008
...They’re quieter, blend in with a rooftop more seamlessly, take up less space, can produce 50% more electricity per year, can produce energy at lower wind speeds, and are safer for wildlife such as birds and bats....
That goes against almost everything I have ever read about verticals. Verticals 'promise' all that, but in the end they all fail to deliver. Small home size turbines have lots of issues, they tend to work best when you have lots of land, live off the grid and need to charge your battery bank. For a town its better off with a large machine, for a home owner solar hot air or hot water is a better return.
That goes against almost everything I have ever read about verticals. Verticals 'promise' all that, but in the end they all fail to deliver. Small home size turbines have lots of issues, they tend to work best when you have lots of land, live off the grid and need to charge your battery bank. For a town its better off with a large machine, for a home owner solar hot air or hot water is a better return.
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written by Tim, June 25, 2008
Great article about what i think is the most interesting form of renewable energy, wind power. I also wonder why wind power hasn't taken off at a faster pace in residential applications.
Looking into wind power though you can see why as it may not be the perfect choice for everyone. There are many factors that one must consider before installing a wind turbine. This article http://www.residential-wind-po...t-for-you/
And if you find that residential wind power is right for your home check out this awesome vertical axis wind turbine http://www.residential-wind-po...d-turbine/
Looking into wind power though you can see why as it may not be the perfect choice for everyone. There are many factors that one must consider before installing a wind turbine. This article http://www.residential-wind-po...t-for-you/
And if you find that residential wind power is right for your home check out this awesome vertical axis wind turbine http://www.residential-wind-po...d-turbine/
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written by Clinch, June 25, 2008
What are you reading then? That sound right for everything I've read or seen about VAWTs.
The less space and better blending is obvious from their appearance, and their quietness can be seen from the numerous videos on the internet of them.
The 50% more electricity per year however, would depend on the specific designs in question, and under certain comparisons, it is definitely true.
And yes, it does make sense to bother with low wind speeds, because not everyone who wants to put a wind turbine on their house lives on top of a 100m pole, or on the edge of a cliff.
And yes, you would need a lot of small VAWTs to be equal to one big HAWT, but the same is true the other way around.
The less space and better blending is obvious from their appearance, and their quietness can be seen from the numerous videos on the internet of them.
The 50% more electricity per year however, would depend on the specific designs in question, and under certain comparisons, it is definitely true.
And yes, it does make sense to bother with low wind speeds, because not everyone who wants to put a wind turbine on their house lives on top of a 100m pole, or on the edge of a cliff.
And yes, you would need a lot of small VAWTs to be equal to one big HAWT, but the same is true the other way around.
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written by BBM, June 25, 2008
People haven't been avoiding verticals because they're all morons, of course.
Verticals are less efficient, despite what is in the article. The downsides are noted above in other posts.
Verticals are less efficient, despite what is in the article. The downsides are noted above in other posts.
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written by Alex, June 26, 2008
I hope that was something else that sounded like a 1977 Chevette engine running without oil.
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written by jacob, June 26, 2008
vertical wind turbines have greater wear and tear on the axis and thus either have to be heavier (use stronger materials) or have a reduced life span.
Also, the noise factor is only because they're operating at lower wind speeds, and thus turning slower. Higher speed verticals generate just as much noise.
All that aside, they look perty.
Also, the noise factor is only because they're operating at lower wind speeds, and thus turning slower. Higher speed verticals generate just as much noise.
All that aside, they look perty.
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written by Bob, June 26, 2008
There are the helix vereticals which look great and all that but if as jacob said, they have more wear on the axis, would it not work to just turn it horizontally, or support it in a frame? A second set of bearings to support it from the top would produce more friction, but if maintained properly, could it reduce some other problems?
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written by Lee C, June 26, 2008
As someone who is looking to place a wind turbine on our land there is just no enough clear information about what does and doesn't work...
I'm not keen on a "traditional" blade turbine and we've been looking at verticals and reading articles and then comments like these only serve to muddy the waters
I'm not keen on a "traditional" blade turbine and we've been looking at verticals and reading articles and then comments like these only serve to muddy the waters
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written by Clinch, June 26, 2008
The wear problem on the axis of VAWTs isn't much of a problem any more, and as they are a simpler design than HAWT, (without gears, and a mechanism to aim it in to the wind for better efficiency) they require less maintenance.
Also, VAWTs don't spontaneously explode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o
And Lee C,
I'd usually trust what the manufactures are saying about their products (false advertising being illegal and all), but if you're still not sure, then go an visit some turbines to see what they're really like.
Also, VAWTs don't spontaneously explode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o
And Lee C,
I'd usually trust what the manufactures are saying about their products (false advertising being illegal and all), but if you're still not sure, then go an visit some turbines to see what they're really like.
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written by boohoo, June 26, 2008
I’m curious as to why vertical turbines aren’t gaining more popularity. I suppose when you look at the price tag, my “why” question is answered – the package runs about $7,000 and that doesn’t include the cost of installation.
Well, that’s because you forgot to include engineering and construction costs. An electrical engineer has to design a way for it works with the existing power system (may not work in many cases of building with ancient MEP systems or the payback takes too long etc). A structural engineer has to see if the roof can handle the load/weight of the turbine (or find a way to strengthen the building to handle the load). Not to mention if the local government will allow the installation of such a device (someone has to be paid to apply for permits etc). This is just the basic stuff, I haven't even gotten into actual cost a contractor will charge to install the thing (it would certainly be a firm that specializes in the installation of turbines). So, just go ahead and scrap that $7000 price tag you mentioned.
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written by Ross, June 26, 2008
Check out Jay leno's garage, they have something similar, I think it's on Popular Mechanics website, this isn't new stuff.
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written by Abhishek, June 26, 2008
look it all depends on the kind of usage one may want out of a solution. For a larger scale project a traditional large wind turbine would be, say, ideal. For a smaller scale, like a house the vertical turbine may provide a solution, but then again it depends on the particular situation. If it is really windy where one resides then it may probably make sense. But generally on the amount you would spend to get a few vertical turbines installed, to get something significant, would be better spent installing solar panels, though again this depends on individual cases. In some cases a methane solution may work if you have enough raw material like cow dung to produce the gas. IT all depends on the situation and the individual needs. What must be understood is that no particular solution is universally ideal and must not be considered as an exclusive. In medical terms we may call it the risk-benefit ration which decides one solution over another.
On the whole, new ideas are always welcome and they may work wonders if you just think out of the box.
On the whole, new ideas are always welcome and they may work wonders if you just think out of the box.
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written by ALynch, June 26, 2008
I'm looking at purchasing a VAWT in the near (1-2 years) future. I live in Iowa City which was recently hit hard by flooding. Unfortunately I had to be out of town for a weekend during the worst of things. My house was fine but I was lucky that the power didn't go out and it didn't rain hard. I want a VAWT to power the sump pump in case the power ever goes out. Aside from that, any net metering savings would be a bonus. Also, when considering 'payback' on a system, don't forget to take into account the added home value. You will probably recoup the cost should you sell your house.
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written by Abhishek, June 26, 2008
This is in response to Mr.Lee C
I was just net surfing when i chanced upon this. Here is a story about a family living off-grid. They have achieved the goal by using a combination of solar and wind energy, though i must mention that the cost is high.
The story is at popular mechanics.
here is the link
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/energy_digital/4204459.html?series=15
Regards
I was just net surfing when i chanced upon this. Here is a story about a family living off-grid. They have achieved the goal by using a combination of solar and wind energy, though i must mention that the cost is high.
The story is at popular mechanics.
here is the link
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/energy_digital/4204459.html?series=15
Regards
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written by Tim Hurst, June 26, 2008
...it is the blower you see in the right portion of the frame, along with another blower (off camera) that was being used to display another turbine just next to me as I was filming it.
I found it kind of ironic that they were using all that juice to power a thing that actually produces its own power.
I found it kind of ironic that they were using all that juice to power a thing that actually produces its own power.
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written by Tim, June 26, 2008
That the video above is actually not of the ANITA energy model, but rather from KR Windpower.
Oh, and thanks for the links!
Oh, and thanks for the links!
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written by Clinch, June 26, 2008
About the family living off the grid (as linked to by Abhishek), it's not that they're generating their own energy that I find interesting, but that they're using less than 10% of the average american household.
Investing in expensive alternative energy isn't something everyone wants to/can do, but there must be a lot of ways the common person can easily reduce their energy needs that aren't well known.
Investing in expensive alternative energy isn't something everyone wants to/can do, but there must be a lot of ways the common person can easily reduce their energy needs that aren't well known.
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written by boohoo, June 27, 2008
but there must be a lot of ways the common person can easily reduce their energy needs that aren't well known.
You have no idea about the cost to maintain such a system. It works for the Audet's because the dairy farm generates enough revenue to justify the maintenance of the system. Most people’s homes don't generate revenue, so there is no way a regular person could implement such a system. They average homeowner would need to budget for maintenance the way they do for a car. Essentially they would need to take equity out of their home then install a co-gen or solar system and try to pay it off in 30 years along with their mortgage. The only reason some homes have gotten solar so far has been because of tax credits, without those very few families could leverage the $10,000-$50,000 to get it installed and then pay for regular maintenance. Also, how would insurance cover these systems in the case of floods, earthquake or hurricanes?
This is one of those things I think will never happen on a large scale. Local/State governments are just going to invest in their own systems and then charge people for power like they always have.
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written by Allen M, June 28, 2008
I remember reading some time ago that the 'Destiny' project in Syracuse, NY plans to use vertical turbines on the light poles in the parking lot. Sounds like a good idea. Noise in the parking lot of a huge mall is not a factor.
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written by Richard P, June 29, 2008
I recently had a vertical axis turbine company come to my house to give me a price quote. The cost was between $7-$13 per watt. So a 5kw wind turbine would cost between 35,000 to $65,000. With an electric bill of between $50-$100 a month there would never be a pay off even looking down 30-40 years. This was such a bummer considering my association has already stopped me from doing solar, and a Illinois bill to override this is going no where since the lawmakers are not getting enough bribe money to pass it. Sorry it's true in illinois unless you are giving money don't expect you legislation to pass.
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written by John, June 30, 2008
If people were rewarded for using less power, we might see some solutions pop up. but additional generation is always "the answer" these days. I'm hoping a low-maintenance, unobtrusive vertical wind turbine could fit into this idea:
http://www.solarnetwork.net/
but upfront costs are a real issue. does anyone know of wind controllers from which you can collect the generation data?
http://www.solarnetwork.net/
but upfront costs are a real issue. does anyone know of wind controllers from which you can collect the generation data?
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written by Geoff Goeggel, July 14, 2008
Here's a vertical axis wind turbine: 1/2 the cost of oil & 1/4th the cost of a conventional wind turbine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCW1zJ7GWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCW1zJ7GWQ
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written by David, October 25, 2008
Urban Green has a slick looking new VAWT:
http://www.urbangreenenergy.com/turbine.php?id=4
http://www.urbangreenenergy.com/turbine.php?id=4
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written by Scott O, June 17, 2009
I foudn a nice WVAWT by Franklin-Thomas Company and sold thru power-one and some other outfit. Sure looks good but then you have to add a controller, dump, and inverter and that more than doubles the cost. I just don't see any outfit out there that's putting together a system for the working man to afford and actually pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time.
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written by vertical wind turbine, June 18, 2009
Horizontal wind turbines are larger and hence, more useful in rural areas with open spaces. If you are living in an urban or suburban area, you will want to opt for the vertical wind turbine. In fact, vertical wind turbines were specifically designed to address the unique issues associated with electricity production in urban or suburban settings where horizontal winds become vertical when encountering the face of a building. The helical shaped blades of the vertical wind turbine can make use of horizontal or vertical wind bursts blowing in from any direction.
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written by James, August 01, 2009
Although the doubt in verticle turbines, the problems was mainly with bearing wear and the maintenance costs in replacing. But since the bullet train, these have appeared...
http://maglev.web.officelive.com/ (Maglev Wind Turbines).
They can be placed closer together as well as being at a lower height, for the 'it spoils my view' opinion. The same technology is being used to increase the efficiency of horizontal turbines, reducing wind speed needed.
They don't need to be fixed at the sea bed either so they can be dragged in for maintenance and replaced with a spare. It could be a equivalent of googles data cloud, the automated energy cloud...
http://maglev.web.officelive.com/ (Maglev Wind Turbines).
They can be placed closer together as well as being at a lower height, for the 'it spoils my view' opinion. The same technology is being used to increase the efficiency of horizontal turbines, reducing wind speed needed.
They don't need to be fixed at the sea bed either so they can be dragged in for maintenance and replaced with a spare. It could be a equivalent of googles data cloud, the automated energy cloud...
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I've been thinking about wind, and if they can reduce costs with solar, by redirecting light (with mirrors) to one high efficiency solar panel, why don't they do the same to wind (but redirect it walls and funnels)?
Or why not, (on big buildings) just redirect the wind inside the building, to save on AC costs?
I have to say though, I do prefer vertical turbines to the propeller one, and it would be interesting to see if they make any vertical axis wind farms.